Backflow Preventers and How They are Applied

the broadcast is now starting all attendees are in listen-only mode well welcome everybody coffee with cliffie Bob hot rod roar I'm gonna be a helping Jim today so Jim's gonna be our presenter and I'm telling you I haven't met Jim in person yet but he is a wealth of information on this topic you know we keep trying to do a 1-hour practice that turns into a two and a half hour and I'm still asking questions so there is there's a guy there's Jim my best friend who I haven't met yet so um I think you're gonna learn a lot tell us a little bit about yourself Jen and let's jump into it thanks for that introduction Bob yeah so this is Jim cos Madga I'm a plumber by trade I have over 30 years now the experience in the field and for about the last 10 I've been learning and have builded delved into speak inspecting and teaching now about cross connection back protection for state of Wisconsin so I work for a water purveyor in the area with a few hundred thousand customers and what I do is go door-to-door and do cross connection surveys and we share a lot of education meet wood plumbers manufacturers I actually I inspected kalevi and we've established a relationship where we're working together they're helping train us and and we're sharing our information with them so today we're gonna try to go through a number of slides that I'll illustrate some good topics if you can advance to the next one please Bob yep so what we're gonna try to do is talk about common terms and references everything shown here why are the backflow preventers used we'll have examples of fluids and hazards to guard against we'll break that down into different levels and categories talked a little bit about back siphon inch back pressure hoping that I would assume that all our guests and everybody tuning in today at least a few tees are resonating with you of interest and you're familiar with what this is all about and esse standards okay that's that's very important because what we all have to work together to accept is that somebody has tested and listed these devices and assemblies and methods and so those are the folks we can refer to it's not the manufacturer telling us that that this is okay or this has this built in it's not the inspector saying this is what I want to sit what I want to see or even the plumber we're all covering ourselves by an independent you know some independent third parties that extends to underwriters laboratories - and other other safety USC okay University of Southern California inspector considerations I know I'll delve into that and common mistakes all right sounds good but we'll forward on that so many things with the plumbing code and then with backflow protection it's driven by definition so we all can kind of get on the same page so cross connections will show in show in later slides actual cross connections potential cross connections type of inspection programs okay containment and isolation that also applies to what you're going to do with a hazard concern are you going to isolate that from everything in the system or containment would lend itself towards are you going to contain this building from the entire community or municipality system then degree of Passard is it polluted or is it contaminated so we can might break that one down is it going to give you a little stomachache and make it make you a little bit ill or have an objectionable older or appearance or color okay taste contaminated now that's something that could could really put you in the hospital or it could be fatal so that's where we got to delve into very serious back for protection shown on the very next line backflow protection devices typically associated with low hazard assemblies are associated would high hazard or contaminant and then methods that would be air-gap your best level of protection atmospheric or air separation between our safe potable water and a suspect source it might touch or a process but not always practical you can you cannot always have an air gap because you might need your system pressurized or you might need the properties that are in that water the chlorine it has to stay in the state it's being delivered so some of the text will be referring to would be from a sses guide to devices and assemblies and what they try to illustrate is your application and selection there and that I want to visit later and then uniform plumbing code what I'd like to say about that is certain there are a few states that have their own code and there is international plumbing code Wisconsin for example has their own state code now I've talked to some folks around the country who have adopted the uniform plumbing code they are still able to have their input and have like here we would call it Wisconsin isms so there would be added text sometimes that in this area the Wisconsin code which superseded the uniform plumbing code maybe take it to a little higher level of extent and so very important that for the manufacturers more so the installers the plumbers the contractors you know what the authority having jurisdiction is going to expect okay and you can try to find out why but easier said than done communication is the key and the collaboration of the manufacturers again the inspectors the plumbers working together that everybody ultimately puts in the approved device the economical device and you know the bottom line the correct safety assembly device or etc so shown on this slide this is a typical community distribution system or from a water purveyor so they they have a variety of customers and some of these buildings that might be looked at as a higher level of a concern than others now the bottom right is a residential and what they might do on some of these lines these laterals going to each unit is is put a backflow preventer to contain that bill they contain buildings from each other okay they're isolating the building but containing in that building that could it can only commingle there now what's also very important which we did get some pre submitted questions when do you see a backflow preventor within a building and multiple backflow preventers now in the residents you see the holes there's a potential cross connection that that holes could be put into a swimming pool or connected to some pesticides on that hose faucet you you will see a backflow preventor integrated there when you look inside the building you see a tub filling it appears at the top see the faucet is above the tub so there's your air gap separation so in residents they're more of a low level of concern of what's going on than in in these commercial buildings on the left you see industrial okay so here's some interesting things you're going to have you're going to have the boiler now that euler builds pressure so that pressure could all overcome the system pressure and it's important to know how much pressure that boiler can build a lot of municipalities may operate as low as 35 psi maybe up to 80 psi before they start to need booster pumps or pressure reducing valves if that boiler can overcome system pressure you're going to need varying degrees of backflow preventers what an esse standard is if it builds over 30 pounds and in this case at mage just the consideration of the elevation a little taller building we typically turn ourselves and look at him closely when they're over three stories if you get over 30 pounds you need a high hazard backflow preventor on the line that isolates that boiler that be collecting 574 the assc 1013 and and you can see now on the top you might have air conditioning or chiller you may have some open tanks up there now there you're either gonna have to make sure you got air gap separation or again a SSE 1013 refer to refer to them as our peas okay to contain that high hazard if it's an open VAT there can be all kinds of you know contaminate contaminants in there even vermin or birds or all kinds of undesirable things that nobody wants to have associated with their drinking water so just just illustrated here well is different level of the customers being served and what they're using water for and then how we got a concern ourselves if our pressure is overcome or our pressure reduces to a level or even we lose pressure or have a break we'll move forward quickly in this slide it's very important what were shown the direction of flaw some of these are flowing left to right some of them are flowing right to left but it's identified on one side of the valve that the water is safe and on the other side of the valve that water may likely be non potable or protected it's going to a process where you don't want to use it for anything other than that process or piece of equipment that is protected by the backflow preventers so these here are shown multi many different manufacturers of asse 1013 and and they're going to different different processes that you don't want to co-mingle again so the the labeling and tagging is very important to tell everybody the mechanics and plumbers and facility staff that you need to know what what's going on with this water line before you can assume to take it to any other equipment especially whether it would be for drinking or coffee etc now Jim I think he said that the green color is usually even if that like the printing was gone off one of these green indicates what go or green is always a kind of international safe side right and and sometimes when when it's just piping on a ceiling now about every 25 feet you may just have a six-inch green band that's going to indicate that you see there a small label so labeling and tagging is addressed differently by different inspectors and authorities have in the jurisdiction but typically 20 to 25 feet you're going to want to have it color-coded and if it goes through a wall you're going to want to identify it again because you want to indicate what that pipe is it's it's a new beginning when it goes into another room so again the labeling and tagging is very important because the water quality the water safety changes okay so here in on the next slide we're showing back okay different types of backflow so water is gonna flow back if it's not pressured or pumped into the building if we lose our pressure your water will just come back because of gravity and in the northern climate you're gonna find our water mains typically are down about eight feet and so if we don't have pressure or if our pipe ruptures is isn't open we have some type of failure your water is going to flow out of your building and go into the mains and commingle and when we repress your eyes it we may be pumping some contaminated or polluted water to other customers so there's the perfect example of the backflow preventor there and as it starts to flow back it can actually create a siphon and then also illustrate it we'll go to next slide and show that one real quickly as we talked equipment can build pressure so that pressure can pump back against city water pressure so if our pressure gets quite low it's it's going to overcome it and pump its contaminants or pollutants used water if you will back into the potable water so that's again where the bad flow preventer will guard against and now within that one for us Jim proudly boilers is what we would be concerned about because a as they heat up your thermal expansion can overcome the pressure that's out here and that's the that's the hazard right and then the degree of hazard is important because if there's any chemicals in that boiler piping for some reason rust inhibitors or things like that that's when you start to escalate to a high hazard concern you need a high hazard backflow preventor that also aligns itself with testable assemblies and then a concern initially with boilers or fire protection systems once it gets into heating system piping or fire protection fighting they're not using potable water piping anymore so you need to protect against just what type of piping has used that that creates a hazard in itself a low level hazard just by piping materials so you do need a backflow preventer that's going to be along the lines on a boiler of a SSE 1012 that's the kalevi 1075 73 yep and so you're talking like steel pipe or something like that on a sprinkler system that's not deadly but you certainly don't want that rusty water flowing back erect or cast-iron so we have an extensive chart here for selecting backflow preventers and that can be viewed on this presentation at any time so we wouldn't go through that whole list but further on what we did was broke down to some of the more common backflow preventers that we've seen and we have some nice simpler charts if you can advance to that Oh Bob could you take this one talk about this I think what we tried to do here is show probably some of the most common things that plumbers that are tuned in today or even homeowners are going to see on their building so this one here you know not all jurisdictions are requiring this but we've got some slides obviously from this fellow back back each that I know Instagram or something we pulled these off but just like to attend he was using the Clough you mixing valve but we notice there that he had a vacuum breaker in there and his code requires that so this I couldn't collapse it there was a back siphon in just water tried to go backwards there so again this was an example what Jim spoke about were the HJ in that area is saying no I want to see these on there it is kind of vague in the code and a lot of codes if you're purposely written vague that you know when do I need this and when don't I need to have seen some that say well this is upstairs where there's you know the potential for it to drain down to a lower level then we want it but if it's on the main level we don't so again and talked with your HJ or your code it could change from city to city to go this one here I'm sure everybody's seen this this is an example where if this hose is in a mud puddle or something like that we certainly don't want that going back in this is going to typically be an assembly that's built into this and hot and cold outside the frost proof obviously house faucet now there's also ones like these little this is probably you're at least expensive device that you'll find out there but Jim will indicate probably one of the best ones this is one that you can just screw around it like a mop sink here and as I remember when you screw these on you're supposed to tighten this little pinch bolt and take a wrench and break it off so somebody can't unscrew that it actually bites into the brass and prevents that from being removed but this down here I want Jim to talk about this here because I this is something I learned I didn't realize about this non-continuous the time period for these type of devices tell me a little bit more about that well basically that that device is you know economically produced and it has a spring in there which is designed to just open and close and flow through basically if you leave that charged for a number of days you're gonna void your manufacturer warranty for a reason because they know it's not going to perform so it's interesting you'll see in some of the charts we have or the asse charts that that's a high hazard backflow preventor but right away that leads to that we need to understand you you need to use the correct backflow preventor for each application now I've seen this in piping systems people want to put this in a piping system and use a hose and then continually pressurize or supply a piece of equipment and they they don't really know why they can't do that but that's not designed for in-line duty or to be continuously open you also can't put a positive shutoff downstream of that like a ball valve or something that's going to turn that thing off and leave it loaded through with pressure so continuous pressure is is one of the common things that need to be understand understood discuss and agreed upon between everyone involved in in a process or a water supply issue also orientation you can't have those upside down so there's different things you have to understand what can create back pressure what what continuous duty is and you know where you can have elevated piping or even elevated hoses out of it we have on our charts vacuum breakers and then again that the ASSE 1013 those are the ones that you can have elevated piping coming out of you can have continuous pressure it's going to be open all the time whether it's flowing or not and let's move forward I'll show those slides some of that a little more so here's where we break down some of the charts we have the ten twelve and you can let's go to the ten twelve that's one we see quite a bit Kelefa 573 that's on a lot of boilers no evidence of chemicals in those boilers being added falls into that low hazard column that that that valve is approved for back pressure back siphon into continuous pressure but again that's a low hazard backflow preventor anytime there's evidence of chemicals being added and even if someone's telling you they're using a propylene glycol or some food grade chemical typically jurisdictions are gonna say if you can add chemicals we're not gonna assume for years down the road you're always gonna bear the expense and use these good chemicals you may you may use or someone at it uneducated may put the wrong chemical in there so any evidence of chemical is going to escalate to a high hazard and then again the asse 1012 but what I want to say is on a boiler or pressure building equipment it it extends also to espresso machines if that machine can build over 15 psi for a steam boiler or steam generator or 30 psi for a water boiler that escalates to a high hazard just based on the pressure built by that equipment and they there's enough of a concern again that you need a annually tested assembly a SSE 1013 that's referred to as an RP or Coletti 574 that is tested typically annually tested when it's installed tested when it's repaired so the hazard dictates that we got to have some record that this thing is performing doing its job or capable of doing its job so these charts that we have broken down here simply and quickly for you the a SSE 1015 typically in Wisconsin that's legal on fire protection that's the only application you're going to see that SSE 1048 is basically fire protection again with a bypass to detect any leakage or theft of water so we can move on these slides will be available to view at any time and we can answer questions on it let's go to the next slide because it shows the 1024 in in use okay so now this we we don't use these in Wisconsin and as shown on the slide now when we do see these they're part of a piece of equipment that's already listed tested and approved by either a SSC or state or local code we do not see these externally but here it's been used to contain a building okay and did you want to back up Bob and yeah this in a second because this is just basically a double check there's no vent there's no penises this isn't obviously a high hazard but I see these a lot there's some jurisdictions that allow this on boilers they know back in New York the mid part of New York State there's still an acceptable device for for residential boilers but again you got to look at the consider what's an app right and I don't want to hammer the point too far but the authority having jurisdiction it's important to work with them because you know don't look at them as trying to puff their chest they're just based on their experiences and their knowledge and product approval they're going to interpret things a little differently and they'll they'll have the ordinance or you know the state code to back them out up for different reasons so again when we when we see these typically it's part of a system that might be a dog wash system or different water purification systems but but the assembly the whole product is listed and tested and approved by that that independent agency and that's important so that's what we need to come together and put our heads together the plumbers the inspectors the manufacturers and we all say yeah we all understand but also this third party independent they're the ones who are putting their name on it and telling everybody it's going to work and it's approved and then the inspector can come out and say yes that's that's what I'm looking for and I can show you you know where the text is of why we enforce this for lack of a better word there and Bob can you speak about this one a little bit yeah this is our big seller by far this is good you know we sell it individually like to see it there can come with an assembly with a boiler or fill valve on it one of our two different styles of fill valves so a dual check but the difference between the previous one and this one is the vent port right here so as fluid comes in here pressure comes in little strainer to pry and protect these little check valves that are in here leave it in there I mean it's in there for purpose and a lot of people say you know I've got rusty water it's gonna plug up right away and they leave it out but it does protect these little check belts so what happens with this one I just to touch briefly is the flow comes through pops up from these check valves and goes in the first thing that happens when the flow comes in is this little I'll call to school slides and it closes off right there that section overing a section of an organ you see cut away and this closes off this pork so the water goes straight through otherwise if that didn't happen obviously the water would come in here and go right out through the port and then the water continues on into the system I don't know if you can notice but there's different spring tensions on all these Springs the pop strength and when this happens so a few pounds of pressure is enough to seal this that it can go through the device into it so the intention here is if we have a condition where we drop pressure here and this backs off its first spring any water that could come back from the boiler was gonna go down the vent now the main thing about this is they do spit from time to time without drip or they'll spray or hammer every now and then that's not necessarily a bad thing it's this device doing its job if it sees a condition where this is backing off it's supposed to open up the seal here and you might get a little spit or spray occasionally from time to time well I know there are some installers they'll put a soft seated check valve upstream of this right here so that if there is a water ham or something in this system it doesn't shock this little opening here and it can kind of eliminate or at least reduce the potential of this thing to spit and spray so with that in mind if you're going to put this somewhere with that spit or that spray could cause harm you want to put a pipe on this kind of Jim's going to show some examples about here the minute that it's not going to spray into your boiler on top of some equipment so just know that the spit in the spray is an indication device doing its job and it's a fairly simple you know you could disassemble it at this knot right here and getting there clean that out if you had to it does come apart rarely do people take the time to troubleshoot it put it back to use I just replace it but that's kind my story and I'm sticking to it Jim unless yes I'm mad no and pointing out just the only thing that not in the unions that's a nice feature on some of Calathes equipment the 570 force to the unions come standard there there so you can take these things apart and even you can loosen the unions and slide a new assembly or device right in there so that is very nice one thing that I've noticed especially on the 574 but again up here look at your column and what it protects it's not a high hazard device if this boiler ethylene glycol in it that's not the right device for the application right and and as I said in Wisconsin any evidence of chemicals it automatically automatically escalates to a high hazard concern so we hate we show 1012 here on some heating lines okay they they're controlling the floor down to the floor just wanted to talk about that HJ again in Wisconsin we say if you put a pipe in there you have to have that air gap adapter so it's kind of funny are we saying you know that the floor is gonna be full of something you know or there's a sewage backup but you know there's a water main break at the same time sure all these things you know that's a remote scenario but that's what we have to protect against the absolute worst case scenario and and it's foolproof that and that's what we're striving for so that's what you know it's nice that what what the installers the plumbers again the inspectors we're all working together to understand and justify and then and cover the liability and protect the public's health that's our goal custodians of the of the safe water if you will let's go to the phone and see what else we see I had talked about this the testable backflow the rating require women know again we typically you don't want to call pressure I don't think you can say pressure is a hazard however again a SSC's listing of the ten twelve okay I actually sat in on that viewed that board in a roundtable discussion and saw what they were talking about and on their approval thirty pounds were water or less that's what that assembly has been tested and listed that it's gonna it's approved that it's going to perform if you have over thirty pounds and typically when I see a boiler and it's for a four-story building you see in the bottom right corner of this slide they show the pressure blow off there okay if we see that that pressure blow-off is 50 typically we either see that's 30 or it's 50 if I see that's 50 then I reach out to the to the maintenance staff to the staff at that building and I say your backflow preventor does not align with your the pressure your boiler can build so we either say either if you can change that pressure relief or you know valve on that boiler and your boiler professional does that and and authorizes that then you're fine if you cannot do that now in our jurisdiction we will say you're not doing the repair anymore now you're working on the drinking water you're working on the potable water now that's plumbers work under permit and you need a high hazard backflow preventor so gives you a little insight to how we dissect things okay and and and we do try to be favorable we'll say can you change that blow-off can your boiler accept that or you're gonna alter the potable water and put on the testable assembly in this slide here we show controlling the drain they're using packs okay again different jurisdictions are going to say if you need that air gap fitting but important here your this may drip for different reasons it checks if you will could be fouled with debris teflon tape rust many different things or there could be a backflow situation so if your if your valve is going to vent or relieve dump out the bottom you don't want that going on electrical controls any equipment maybe even damaging a floor so you have to be again worst case scenario you got to try to cover all you know we can't protect against everything but the stuff that identifies itself we got to do what we can so just a number of these slides now are going to show different some different installations of what we see so we should be able to go through them fairly quickly again I think this is the Collette 573 here just shown there basically all we're showing here is the vent again controlling the fan Bob do you want to speak about any more of what some of those processes would be that's not know I think we're doing a good job here this is probably one of our combination assemblies here that come with the with the backflow and the boiler a fill valve with the age and stuff on it some other nice collected components thanks list I'll throw its what a day in and day out store what I do go in door-to-door on the right side here is the flow okay and so that's the potable water so that's that's what I do day in and day out is find out where the buck stops and it's very interesting and you know enlightening to understand what a lot of processes are but we we see many dozens or hundreds of processes what it whether it be chrome plating or one of them that I saw they had an RP and it went up to heat a helicopter pad on a roof for something and there was anti freeze in there and we didn't know where that pipe went so at the end of the day we had to find out where does it go once it goes through the wall so that once we researched it we found out it went into a system that that thawed you know some some piping on the roof and it took care of snow melt etc etc but we had to know did it ultimately go into a heating system we didn't know where it ultimately went here again just a field installation of the 10-12 and making some adjustment there on pressure regulators but no no vent tube on this one nope so apparently they're determined likely that it's not going to cause a hazard if that drips maybe just then a concrete floor make its way to a floor drain so talking a little bit more about 210 13 and what I want to say illah great in it excuse me illustrated in that large chart that we had from asse they're gonna say what the approvals are for low hazard and you know the back siphon is back pressure one thing I like to illustrate when I'm talking with plumbers and trades folks out there or facility staff back pressure what we say is elevated piping equals back pressure so the 1013 is the only one you can install and then take piping out of it and go somewhere else go up that many of the assemblies and devices you see vacuum breakers whether they there's testable vacuum breakers there's atmospheric vacuum breakers spring-loaded vacuum breakers you cannot have elevated piping and and then there's a concern that comes into play also five feet and this varies by jurisdiction but five to seven feet is the maximum height you can put a lot of testable assemblies because it's got to be testable someone has to be able to go up to it and in a practical manner test and service it so you can't put these things up too high unless you have a catwalk or permanent assembly up there that's why I given and again and again we see a SSE 1013 's here shown to kalevi 574 that's going to serve overwhelming majority of the equipment we see as it again you can come out of there flowing horizontal and it can go vertical right away out of the out of the valve where you have that limitations now also you have to understand or verify if your valve is approved for vertical up or vertical down or even you know upside down whatever that orientation is that's all going to be in the proof the approval or listing by that independent agency because not all valves are approved for vertical up and vertical down and then also shown here the air gap adapter and that's important so some products it's going to be included more often than that you're going to have to buy that and and that can that can be 30 40 50 70 dollars to buy that part believe it or not lastly on this slide on the top you see the test so that's where you're gonna a testers going to put his gauges and his hose adapters and he's gonna certify if you will annually that and I think we show that a little more in depth and another slides yeah yeah and I'll just talk quickly so what happens with this RPG is that slow comes in here as I understand it pops openness I checked with about five pounds of pressure it'll pop that open this is a two-pound pressure so this is a normally closed NC check here pressure opens it this is a known normally open once the pressure comes in it goes down and the backseat system shuts this port so this being five and this being two three pounds of pressure is always on this to keep it close so if we get you know something stuck like it usually what happens with these is some teflon tape or something gets stuck in the first check the pressure course in this reduce pressure zone would increase to whatever's coming in here then it would lift this off at seat and it would discharge that and by the way that can be a lot of water if you get a rock or something comes through here which is why you want to put a strainer on that it could open this this part up enough that this opens that you get a good stream water coming through so again and it this is one of the bells that it's going to tell you when something's wrong with it this kind of self diagnosis itself if it's dripping or streaming or spraying and it's telling you you got to take this apart there's something either damaged in here something stuck in here and that's why it's I think kind of the granddaddy the devices as far as the you can see on the hazard level appear and also the one that's gonna be tested once a year by code requiring typically and also even if you test this one day in something damages that the next day it's still gonna fail and work like Jim said earlier some of them you can test them in fifteen minutes later that could fail and you know it still passed the test or this one because of this reduced pressure zone in this low screech back here it's gonna let you know if something happened to that valve the day after the inspector signed it off is that fair to say Jim yes absolutely and someone had shown when we showed the test kits adapted in some training facilities yeah I think that's coming up but this and I will throw one other thing just a little claw fees feel for it we do include this with our other brands you've got to buy this as a separate can we think I would call it a tundish or something that in Europe is what's call but a little air gap there with you know you could put your tube you know and just pinch it in their throats screws but yeah somewhere here coming up I mean we can zip through these but you've now here's one that's not there's no tube going I don't think Jim there's a requirement that that has to have a tube to the floor does it no it doesn't have a requirement that it is stub down and therefore you don't need that adapter either what is what is nicely illustrated in this slide is you see the green tagging for the safe water and then if you go to the upper right corner you see the either unsafe or protected and so what they're doing here it continues past the backflow preventor and then there's a pressure reducing valve for one use throughout our facility and they are just lowering the pressure maybe for common plumbing fixture use but the backflow preventor yeah at this facility I know they're isolating a laboratory and they like the high pressure continuing to that laboratory so also again the identifying triangle which is pretty universal and you see the test report the annual test report hand hand excuse me hanging there so if it's practical to keep it at the assembly that's that's best but if you might be like in a foundry or carwash or something that might be you know in the maintenance staffs office so that adds something in Wisconsin and so just to estill illustrate what codes or water purveyors want there's got to be a test report on site the certified tester should have a test report with him because he's now going to get annual requirement letters from the state or the water purveyor as his name is on that valve and so now the report should be forwarded to the state and then also was ever providing the water that that's a four part form and it says right on it like the yellow copy will go to the department which would be the state that's kind of overseen by the Department of Natural Resources and then the water purveyor too so it's important that the testers know who wants to get that copy and in it you know I think it's unreasonable to expect that the tester says we'll go look for it or go to the site or go to the state site it needs to be provided to who's selling the water because they have to keep providing the water they have to keep record of that they keep record of the hazards as we can appreciate they keep record of the performance test that this thing is doing its job and let's go a little forward I think we can get to again shown here this is a 1013 again quite a large system they stroll a Weiss trainer on the left with the black piping that's going to protect your valve and the identification here again is good so you can tell the orientation of flow by the by the way the valve looks you can kind of see it would be pushing check valves up out of the way and the water flowing through when the water pressure is stronger than what's on the source side and then they would close if the contaminant was flowing back and down the drain and let's go forward again I'd like to get to where we have the testing another RP this one shown for irrigation a nice point there up out of the ground okay and and installers would need to educate themselves on the height requirements one foot up sixty inches max moment like I said you need some clearance from the walls for testing you need clearance space out in front of it for servicing to this one obviously is up and nice and accessible but we all know you can get into mechanical rooms you know dark wet used areas old and so then that's when some of that more comes into play so let's go a little forward this this slide nice little illustrates that containment and isolation again so they're containing the building they are isolating fire protection then with that double check so the building is contained on the supply side by the vertical double check and so now that building is not going to let anything go back into the mains of the city and then what they want to do by using the second double check is their isolating that fire protection system from the water they're using so they're keeping their water say from that and they're protecting you know meeting a requirement contain themselves from the from the city means and again so the 10:15 shown their low hazard backflow preventor likely going to fire protection with no chemicals but needs backflow preventor because of the materials used in that fire protection system now this is a vacuum breaker there are a ssed certifications for 10 20s and 1050 sixes you also need to know things like is it approved for indoor use or outdoor use and all the manufacturers when you get into vacuum breakers and 10:13 reduced pressure principle assemblies their standards it how many valves it has does it have an inlet and outlet valve does it have test ports now this vacuum breaker has two test boards as you saw on the RPS the 10:13 s for tests Cox we call them so that's all used for the procedure when you're testing vacuum breakers you you have to certify when the air inlet opens and when the check valve closes so let's let's move on again and one one knock can vacuum breakers is the height where you need to put them because you again no elevated piping if you're using a non sprinkler systems it's got to be higher than all the heads who might use to distribute your water your sprinkler heads it you may not have that in a basement because if it's going to go outside and serve you know a flower area grass area it's just not going to work that's why typically you're gonna see a lot more 1013 and our piece that you are going to see vacuum breakers and you can kind of follow this schematic if you will this illustration and you can see what they're doing here - they're containing and isolating both both processes and their irrigation when that vacuum breaker that's a high hazard vacuum so typically when you have a high answer vacuum breaker that means there's chemicals you know injected somewhere okay and that's they do have atmospheric vacuum breakers to ASSE one zero zero one but again you've got to make sure it's installed at the right height whether it's continuous pressure non continuous if you can app that helps downstream if you cannot some of the atmospheric not not testable devices it cannot have any valves downstream because again it's not designed to be left in an open and flowing orientation let's go on and I would like to get to the one where we have the the gauges on there for your protection here low hazard they have the bypass on there to detect the smaller usage usage leakage or unfortunately theft of water too so that's why they have that one there and again you can view these slides okay so here we have the gauges and what we're doing here this is this is a school and they're teaching testing and so what they're doing by putting the hoses on they're basically putting on Inlet and outlet sides of the check valves and then checking does that first check valve close above five psi the second check valve in an hour P closes above the requirement is a minimum of one PSI so that's all in the design I'm sure the engineers understand that standard a lot more as Bob nicely explained that the relief there's a three PSI buffer between the relief and first check that one opens at two so advance but what's what's shown well here is the test kit on the valve you've got water in the test kit and then you would you emit air to the system and you tell when that spring seats okay and the check valve closes so that that's what it's it's fairly simple it becomes a simple process for these testers and they developed their own hybrid systems the first thing they're gonna do when they test is they come in and say we're turning off your water supply to this process okay oftentimes what people do is they have a bypass with a backflow preventer of equal hazard protection so they can test one leave the system operating test another and then go through the other one and leave the system operating sometimes difficult to explain to a facility that it's in your best interest to design this a little better a little more initial cost but we're not going to shut down your process because you know some processes run 24/7 every day or they're running you know during the work week so they cannot turn that off so in this slide here again showing we have on the bottom with the gauge we have the a SSE 1013 that is the collective 574 above there's the 10 15 again like I said only for non chemically treated fire protection in Wisconsin and then up above they show the a SSE 10 20 and that 10 20 that pressure vacuum breaker a ssese approval or recommendation at very least that is only for outside so that one they had an instant years ago where it flooded something so that one is not approved any longer for for inside installation if if you were going to use something very similar a vacuum breaker it would be the 1056 looks very similar that one has indoor approval so you know important to familiarize with again the charts the requirements the designs and kind of understand the process and and then again the authority hit that the folks that are asking you for what you need and how they interpret what needs to be protected and you can reach out beforehand so you can kind of do your project once and do it ideally eken as economically as possible satisfy your customer still you know make the profit that you need we can go forward there too Bob do you want to speak to this one a little bit yeah so this is a you know the question becomes with boilers you know which one do I need to put on a little residential boiler and here's one of the issues if you somebody the day you put it in there down the road comes and squirts a chemical in there now this I know this brand I think this is a safe product here you know that would need a high hazard but there's the question is when does this happen or when could this happen and that's why the requirements getting a little tougher on him and a higher hazard protection device on or those regardless of the pressure level even if it's under that 30 psi you're seeing more and more thirties having jurisdiction even what you gotta go a step above what you've been doing and so obviously it's going to take more cost and the other side of that is then it's it becomes something that has to be tested officially right Jim if you put in a testable backflow preventor somebody's got to do it and then Wisconsin record it yearly and if they don't you go you show up if they don't have it done right is that how it works if they correct and typically be anywhere between 100 and 500 dollars to get that tested and recorded there's recording fees with the state and and so n testers can be certified they do not have to be licensed plumber they just have to be able to meet a few prerequisites to get into the training classes SSC has 40 hour classes for the training but the the test reports are followed and you know you typically manufacturers can say well with some of our equipment if it's aluminum or something we're not going to put a bad chemical in there and you know we can all say we're gonna do everything we can to always make sure we know you know what's being injected there but as time goes by the certain things you know maintenance staff can change or even a building can be repurposed or you know so much can change and when you have that induction site if you will that capability of adding those chemicals that's why again as you said it illustrates that it's a high hazard concern and I think that's reasonable to say that that's the only way we feel we can protect against what can potentially happen and and and it's just the passage of time I think everybody can understand that that you may have a process in a facility that the current maintenance staff and everybody understands but as things trim or you know turnover there might be something that slips through the cracks and we have to protect again against that worst-case scenario yeah you're protecting the public basically is shown here is some of the things that this I believe is the state of Wisconsin registration and so they have a database that everyone can go on and they kind of can see where all these valves are and see what they serve and and that's what's that's how it's all tracked that's the state regulated object number so what the state says then is they tell the water purveyors go and make sure these tests are performed in the cycle that they need to be performed I don't think it's real common for for states to regulate or track all regulated objects because if there is an expense stack so I do think Wisconsin is in the minority of tracking all the regulated objects they went out when a tester again as I said tests and assembly it provides that report selling them no longer providing the water and he then he has to file with the state and there's a fee for that approximately a $25 fee to file his test report on state so offsets the state tracking it it's it's a pretty involved system there we've got a lot of checks and balances and all you know authorities having jurisdiction all enforce and interpret a different way they can they can explain that to everybody as required but again we keep hammering home reach out and cooperate with each other let's see if we do have any more left again an RP everything shown there the only I didn't like about this slide that they had the green tagging on the outlet above the yellow there in the upper right hand corner and you definitely want to stay away from putting green when you have something that's a protected or becomes non potable at that time so the color coding is important so as I understand it the water once the water comes into a building it goes through this device just the process of going through there it turns it into non powder you don't want this water back under any condition if you're a provider right it doesn't necessarily if we have to call an assembly which means testable doesn't necessarily mean it's non potable but it's protected for a reason if it was a brewery for example they want you to know that this is protected water let's say there could be beer in there you don't want that coming out of a drinking fountain you don't want that commingling with a coffee maker or something doesn't necessarily mean non potable but it is protected and it's protected for a reason you have to go and look at where it ultimately goes what's the end point of use that's why as I said before when I was trying to follow that pipe and it went to that helicopter thawing pad or you know it was hydronic heating up there you got to kind of know where it goes and understand you know what it all touches what the potential is that it could siphon her back but a wants us is in there Jim the city doesn't want this water back right yep we got to supply it so it's it's just the potable safe water and even on coffee makers espresso machines different things we have to protect that from being in there because we can't have somebody open a tap and and and get coffee out of it or anything like that carbonated beverage one thing I'd like to say about orientation carbonated beverage dispensers it's very important where the backflow preventers are are placed they have to be placed and it gets very specific between the pump and the carbonator you can't just put it on a water supply shut off anything like that because there's there's different reasons that different products have to be used after the carbonator z' you can't have any copper you have to have plastic or stainless steel piping processes can affect piping materials and create some some real toxic substances so that kind of again you have to understand where your orientation of your backflow preventers is and if we can move forward one other one other device that we see a lot or piece of equipment is sole proportion errs and commercial kitchens and things like that and a lot of that equipment has air gaps built in it so you may not need any backflow Protection any at all however if you're adapting it onto a faucet or another plumbing fixture there's a very specific way you have to connect that if you has its own supply it may be just fine so in our P shown here let's advance through the last couple we might have and see if there's anything of any we address this some of the concerns that and when it is in fact doing its job okay gosh you'd be almost to the second here everything through these live that's impressive thanks for doing that certainly the first time that was made so we did a YouTube video a couple years ago on that little backflow preventor there is me the talking head right there talking about what he's explained a little bit earlier how the checks working at and how the bad words how they spit and why they spend what you can do to prevent them because you know we get back sent back to us and we testing they work fine it's just the application they were putting it was causing the spit because pressure shock or I shut off solenoid we've taken back and wishing everybody the best thanks again to my staff up in Milwaukee that helps put this together I'm - Jim for taking the time to do all this and we'll see you next time thanks Bob it was a pleasure yeah thank you