Collegiate Wrestling Talk Oklahoma State vs Iowa with Joel Suprenant


Chael Sonnen


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Oklahoma State Iowa over the weekend did you see it I followed it on Twitter okay 13800 fans are in Gallagher Hall have you ever Russell there yeah twice I I wrestled there it was probably half full and it was one of the coolest experiences ever even though the the cowboy I was warming up and the cowboy was warming up in front of me and I wanted to punch him you know that oh yeah Scott oh the mats yeah let's just start before you get into it I love listening you talk about Russell when you answer who did that bit and Australia loved it I did not know there was somebody other than Ben Askren that could talk Ruslan like you before we get into it you run us through it what weight class was John Smith talking about that is the deepest weight class that he can ever recall ah you know what it's funny you said you put me on the spot because I don't know even though I heard the dialogue it's gotta be 33 that's right well I heard him tell ya it could have been 74 though because you got two champions in there right now I don't actually know that I heard the piece I watched the piece on flow and I also missed the weight class that he was referring to but here let's start this duel off and I really don't want to go through every single one of them but there is a few moving parts Aaron first off and John Smith said it himself this is the best we've looked all year long that can be a real dangerous spot with three weeks in the season that can be a confidence booster and that can be a false sense of security I mean he well knows this doesn't mean me to say it but that is one thing and if you watch this dual Iowa and Oklahoma state the biggest rival in the history of college wrestling and isn't gonna be about beat out anytime soon the one thing about that duel joel is you could redo that right now and get a different result you could redo that right now and I could all but guarantee you you will get a different score it's significantly different score but you definitely do that three to four to five time for sure you get a different result because here let's start right here I'll give you a nine point swing Lee versus pitch right out of the bat right of the box 125 pound I loved how they did the duel by the way they started the right weight class they end with the right weight class and they took no intermission that's the way to do a duel for the fans you got 13,000 people there goddammit get into it and they did so pitch goes out there and you know pitch is so damn good but 12 months ago he couldn't stay on the mat with Lee not in a competitive format he go eight three he go nine four but there was no doubt in that seven minutes who was gonna win the contest here's the thing and I always get very careful if I'm ever critical of the amateurs because all they get for their efforts is a pat on the back and I think that they should always get a pat on the back but Lee is a bit of an interesting one and he was a three time and yes you heard me with three-time three-time world champion coming into three-time you're forgetting his cadet cadet world junior world junior world three times two on the open ladder the u.s. senior level yes no he was on a senior team number two oh I'm sorry that he's two on the open lap okay a ranking way yes now you're actually wrong and I hate to do this that you're thinking of fix fix his number two yeah this'll fix lost a Gilman Spenser actually did not enter the open and it was Spann Gilman made it his teammate his club teammate made it it was speculated that they didn't want those two to go head-to-head because he's also Gila Spencer's lease coach and let's just not do that for the awkwardness for it for a Ramos type moment let's not that was only speculate but here I do want to make this point to you and I want to make sure I use the right words because he he does not deserve me to come on and critique him in a harsh way but one of the things you're gonna have whenever you've got a three-time world champion you're not you're not gonna see one again for a meaningful period of time but somebody that is decorated and success you have to be very careful as a buyer somebody that you would like to do business with and go through life with is somebody who has failed in the past somewhere because you've got to be able to assess how do they deal with it I have to know when they got knocked down how quickly and how did they get up and did they even get up many people we could look at our sport I'll use Ronda by an example because it's a name I know you can recognize when she got knocked down she simply could not get back up and there there's a big difference and if you have somebody under contract or under scholar ship and he's more than worth the full ride please don't misunderstand what I'm saying this is a defending national champion but you do still have some of those unforeseen 's and when Spencer went out to the Midlands he's actually never won the Midlands he's won every goddamn tournament there is he's never won the Midlands he lost to Ronnie Bressler last year and Sebastian was able to get over on him this year but when that happened something else happened this year which is the very next day he deleted his Twitter account now you could only draw certain conclusions from that but what I drew from that was surprise here I'm looking at a three-time world champion with an NCAA title under his belt who I should remind you never redshirted remarkable talent remarkable accomplishments and he got his feelings hurt through a couple of hundred followers of which I would imagine of that couple hunter less than five ever said anything about that man I would imagine it was a pretty limited amount I could be wrong but I know I'm clay wasn't twenty it wasn't a lot and it was within one day he deleted the whole thing it surprised me and it also made me think okay kid does he not deal well with this is this a guy that the pressure can get to him where the Downs can really bring him down and in the course of a season you got to make sure you never get too high and you never get too low it's real important to be that steady guy because it's such a long and grinding season so I kind of had a feeling going into the match with pitch even though I knew 12 months ago though the match will be tight there will never be a wonder of who the winners I kind of had Flags this something's gonna happen here now if I'm to be real fair with you I would not have picked pitch and if I was to be super fair with you I would have bet anything that it did not end the way it did which was pitch pinning him did you see the actual fall okay you said you read about it no no I watched it okay I watched after the fact yeah after the fact a 20-second bit I thought he caught him in the in the camel clutch or whatever the hell what's that movie they call it cow catcher there's some guys call it Gator bacon those guys are dicks it's called a death grip it's called the death grip Gator bacon is an embarrassment to the entire sport that anybody would call a move in the sport Gator bacon for the record cow catcher came along somewhere along the way but that move was created by Broderick Lee and it's called a death grip he named it he passed it down to Oscar Wood who pinned his way to the n-c-double-a tournament to come back to third and Oscar wood calls it a death grip so the moves been named and you get these pricks out there on the internet that are now calling it Gator bait it's called a death grip I invented the Metzger now Andre Metz Kirk invented the Metzker now you trying to mess with me I know exactly where these brothers at mo rotten nobody did that nobody did the cowcatcher before Broderick Lee no radically showed it but at Oregon product Oregon's a peninsula trickled over to Oscar would Oscar would lost his first match at the NCAA tournament pinned his way back to third had to pin seven straight guys including the guy who beat him in the very first round pin him all with the same move and guess what Oscar wood said he said I learned the move from Broderick Lee and it's called a death grip so there it is okay now you got pricks that went to cowcatcher which if you ever do catch a cat it kind of is that techniques I'm half okay with it even though it's wrong then you've got these real scumbags that are calling it Gator bacon that's an embarrassment man - no bring the haters or to bake you don't even you don't bring them move into the sport of rustic okay oh we hit him with the Gator bait it's called the death grip created in 1993 by Broderick Lee in Portland Oregon ran made famous in 1999 by Oscar wood the NCAA tournament st. Louis Missouri okay it wasn't the cowcatcher or the gator bacon gobbler God's sake the Gator bacon there's another one that these pricks are doing and they're doing it the highest level of the Olympic Training Center other one they're doing they're calling it a head and arm ahead and arm a headlock headlocks illegal on all the I don't care if you're in the fifth grade I don't care if you're in the Olympic championships you specifically cannot do a headlock you've now got coaches yelling from the car hit him with a headlock come with a head head locks illegal it's called a head and arm it's the most basic moving all of Russell it's more basic than a double leg it's more basic than an arm break it's more basic than a collar tie two kids start wrestling in a living room anywhere in the world that have never had a single day of training one of them's going for the head and arm if not both one of them's gonna get it it's called a head and arm and on the highest of levels they've attempted to rename it and call it a headlock which by the way is fundamentally illegal in the sport did Damon McPherson invent the head and arm no I'm not making that up Broderick Lee made up the death grip there's literally zero chance of that if there's if you could ever be 100% wrong about something it's them not only to product Lee make it up okay in the whole history of rustling nobody would come up with that that move crap I agree with you thank you thank you for that not only that he make the move up it was at an opposing Club so Oscar got this second hand made it famous in 1999 in Missouri and credited Broderick and called it the death grip and now you've got these pricks on the internet that are calling it Gator bacon which is just an embarrassment to the sport you got coaches trying to say headlock illegal per the rules not what it's called for one and then you got these other athletes that are trickled down and influenced by these coaches athletes that know that's called a heading are they they're not calling it head locks I mean they're taking that back to their kids and their clubs and they're telling them it's head hitting with a head lock excuse me head locks illegal that's called a head norm most basic groove in wrestling shut up I used to run a protest with Anatoly by the way at the Olympic Training Center he would yell we'd be warming up we'd be in the grass and we'd play a game of Ultimate Frisbee to warm up then we'd be in the grass and I've been on Matt's head nook headlock he yell it out so I'd snap I would go it was Darrell Christian I'd snap him down every time put him in the front headlock and Anatoli look I said headlock it's like yeah coach that's what I'm doing all these other guys are doing ahead in arm do you want head and arms say head no I ran my own silent protest and never worked he never cut on I may never ever in the history of ever get you to admit that you were wrong but I will get you to admit that you were wrong about this that Broderick Lee did not invent the cowcatcher he might have changed it name and said hey this this is a death grip but never in the history of ever yes he did never he had three different said let's get to the match one was called the Leonia his last name was Lee his name was Broderick Lee at one set up called the Leonia I get to the actual pinning combination because I was wrong it wasn't well oh god Rick Lee here's what's interesting about that so first off this match is quite possibly match of the year this there was some phenomenal wrestling in this limited period of time I'm talking about scrambles I mean these guys were getting after but here's what happened okay so the rule has changed and I don't I mean if you don't watch right you'll miss some still you can't do this hand in the face let's take a point for me no warning anything boom you do that you see what I'm doing right here palm basically - anything that doesn't have hair on its a good way right there one point one point it's called hand in the face yeah I cannot do that anymore I must come from the side and hit you in the hair come on top of the head and pull down I cannot block you like this or do anything okay by example so one of the things that has changed is the out of bounds rule and it changed the number of years ago but then they've modified it slightly and nobody knows what the real rule is well we we do now but yeah it would confuse a lot of people I mean if you weren't up to speed on it would confuse you so for example both guys need to be out and I'm talking about their entire body so imagine you and I are wrestling your way the hell out I mean you're almost on the hardwood floors and my little tippy toes are in we're wrestling and I'm scoring if I'm if I could score points I could do whatever we're gonna wrestle but it's relevant you understand this because Spencer Lee was 100% out of bounds okay so pitches in a front headlock you got a picture that's are you picturing it so pitches in a front headlock his body's in spencer's bodies a hundred percent out so pitch is about 90% of his body in how much time's left in the match in the in period second period right plenty but I don't know the answer that question that was not a factor like you put him with three seconds let no I I don't know the answer but plenty of time but it's very important you understand this position because Spencer least thought he wasn't wrestling there he was not pitch was doing some front headlock stuff and even like released in his hands and moving videos and releasing his hands move this and Spencer was just sitting there but in Spencer's total defense it's all he has to do if pitch is ever to try to spin behind him he's ever to try to shuck him he's now out of bounds and the whole moves blown dead Spitz early does not need to wrestle that position based on this psychology and understand of the rules and I think I understood his like he just sat there go what are you gonna do all you can do is spin or push me you sure as hell aren't gonna pull your evening to try to pull me back on the mat if you do I'll grab your legs and I'll run you down so pitch out of nowhere cradles him and by say cradle cradles are there ever sought the way he set this up Joel Spencer leaves on all fours pitch cradles him guess what pitch stands up to his feet yeah I see the look on your face I wish the oddest could see so hey you finish a cradle everybody in the world knows you put the head in the ribs you drive your feet you run him over Spencer Lee was so unobservant of the position that once pitch locked it up he literally stood to his feet now he's got a guy cradled you get that raise got the Neen he's got the head he's got his hands locked he stood up to his feet well now there's no way for Spencer to defend it I mean he's picking him up off the mat he's only got one little foot it turns him right over not for nothing it was the fastest fall in the history of collegiate wrestling but nobody complained or said a word one beat if they would have done this in Iowa and called it I'm sure you would have heard some boos because at Oklahoma State you heard no boos and quite frankly nothing Spencer was going anywhere so you didn't hear any booze it was the fastest fall in the history of wrestling now a freestyle touch fall has never been called faster than this collegiate fall was called but nobody's raising a stink I'm not either I'm just telling you what happened I love the name pitch but I don't think there's a H or a T and that kids new pitching any pitcher Nene if I'm saying it wrong I'm adding a teen it's picking Nene but I don't think so I think it's pitching it's pitch yeah no it's pitch all right so we go on to fit Christian piles Christian Paul's name to pitch is pitch fixed to Santo pitching pile christian piles runs wrestling said his name is fish christian piles is one of the pricks that says gator bacon as a matter of fact and you know what else christian pile will tell you tell you that Broderick Lee invented the death grip in 1993 and Oscar wood made it famous in 1999 credited Broderick Lee and said it was called the death grip I'm thinking about invent headlocks headlocks are illegal all the ducking no matter if they want to use it at the Olympic Training Center and start a false dialog with guys is not a headlock the rule book page 4 clearly says no head locks you must have an arm so guess what that makes the move makes it a head no I think it's page 4 it makes it a head get to the next match there should be a constitutional amendment that you cannot tell kids even at the highest level in ilio go to a headlock headlock several league referees are looking for ahead why would you say something so stupid that's like putting bacon on high your sport of wrestling is now I haven't tried that yet have you did they really put bacon right now it's a special right now oh I'm not joking start yet Nicki everybody's start about a month it's nice yeah I wanted to try it they're throwing out quarter pounders which makes sense but I've always thought that's called something day that's called a bacon cheeseburgers you know what they should put bacon on what bacon that's someone else's bit I've heard that where did you get that I thought I just made it up I didn't I didn't mean to steal a bit I've heard that before you know who I think said that I think Kevin James said that unlike the king of quits all right let's refocus so that was 125 but that you're telling a nine point swing had it gone the way that the matches went 12 months ago how about a nine point swing three three goes to Iowa six come off the board for Oklahoma State just by example it's a six point swing if he just gets a victory yeah if he just wins five to one yeah and so then you go into 133 and you might be dealing with my favorite wrestler right now in Austin DiSanto yeah and it's for all the wrong reasons I will adone toin to say what they are people that follow wrestling know what those reasons I think I like him for all the wrongs you love you some yawning - yeah but there's just something special yeah that is true wow there's a number of guys that are like but I mean there is something going to happen on the mat every time generally you need to studs against each other and to rank guys and a special do I mean you need something special on wrestling to be a bit a big match that you know hey I don't want to miss that this guy and I will admit for all the wrong reasons something's going to happen either way he whip the kids ass about three weeks ago and then got an unsportsmanlike contact you nobody wins and gets unsportsmanlike conduct on sportsman like contact I mean something's going to happen and I mean the bully got bullied that's the end of that fix flatten him out with the legs and tried to break his back he put an illegal choke on him that the announcers even cut pile we call it that's a rear naked choke there in Oklahoma states the referee like slapped his arm and let the action continue left Austin down there let let fix reef on him but I mean the bottom line was a fix beat him up alright so it's the Austin's plan was to beat up fix and fix jumped on top and so well the guy on bottom doesn't do the beat and I do the beat and it was a very interesting master in that regard into two to nothing well Ryan do you know how this happened though escape for fix right out for fix yeah ed like three and a half minutes of riding yeah and that's what I'm saying I mean that's relevant if you're looking forward to a future mad cuz Lee Lee and pitch could go either way in the future and I don't I don't argue that fix doesn't but if you watch that match even though it was a two O spread it was dominant cuz he did ride them to your point a long time if I ever get a new dog I'm gonna name him pitch what do you what do you hi pot that's funny what are you hi pot yeah I think it's pitch I don't think I'm doing it wrong if I'm wrong it's pick there's no way to know okay pick anemia that doesn't sound right it's pitch I'm doing it right uh here's the one thing those you fast-forward through this duel where was Jojo you just told my mind yeah well get into it though just okay so we we've been going back and forth on this all year you and I I knew us and him her and you and I you had it right all right cool shot in the dark but you did get it right I mean I I know you don't even know why that's correct and I'm not teasing you but you are correct you and I go ahead all right so we're you you've been beating up my boy Chandler for four years yeah you're talking about a guy to time all of America all-american looking to get another all-american place winner at two different weight classes this year and you've been telling me he might not be on the team coming up come the big 12 its predicted he won't so where was Jojo on this weekend that prediction is starting to change them it's all speculation and rumor and I believe a mistake I'm happy to tell you why I believe it's a mistake but so here's the thing they've got a big mess okay Jacoby is an all-american at 74 Rogers is a two-time all-american at 65 jojo's an all-american at 57 and his dad's the coach and he's a great wrestler but he all the sudden can't make 57 so he comes in and tells dad who happens to be the head coach who happens to be the greatest of all time not only am i not go in 57 I'm not even going 65 dad I'm going 74 I'm going up to weights well that's against everything that John Smith has in his blood he doesn't stand for I mean he can't wrap his head around so they essentially set Jojo sat him out a large part of the season and they had stories and they had injuries that all this stuff I personally don't buy them I think it was a weight issue and they're trying to figure out where to get him and how to do this so as the season is coming to an end they're looking to put him at 65 well what do you do with Chandler Rogers who's at 65 as a senior and as a two-time all-american even if he can't win the wrestle off what do you do with them well the answer is he goes home and his careers over you have a two-time all-american that's done or you move him up a weight class well the problem there is there's an all-american up a weight class it's iron on iron they got the whole thing figured out much like nul Joseph and Hall had to do at Penn State so but this is the log jam Joel and then they've got a very good 84 price so it's just as whole then you got waggle and ice there's just nowhere to go so as the end of the season comes they've now moved Chandler up to 74 for the duel they don't wait Jojo in so Martinelli goes out there he gets a fall and seconds gets a fall then it goes to Rodgers who gets a fall over a tough guy and then it goes to Jacoby who beats hand I think 6-3 handily beats Wilkie who's a total stud so it looks to me like you got your lineup but where's Joe Joe I got to go back to that where is he cuz the clocks tickin and time's running out alright let me let me let me call you crazy for a second okay what part well several of them but let's just stay on one they've let's just say they do that let's just say he pulls Rogers Rogers goes home two-time All American probably real close to a hundred see a Division one wins with Oklahoma State is his names all over the board Jojo goes in Russells and he doesn't place does that cost John Smith his job no no absolutely not it would not cost him his job but I mean he's in a rock and a hard place and he doesn't need you and I to tell him it's a very tough spot if he is going to bump a two-time all-american who suited up and and got in that bus and slept in those hotels and found a way to Proctor his exams and get his classes done in favor of his son who was done none of those things all year long he's gonna do it at the absolute last second you are going to talk about a morality issue and the morale of the I apologize not morality but the morale of the team could easily be drained and he's well aware that he's going to be faced with this here's the miscalculation by coach Smith in my opinion coach Smith is looking at this saying son you cannot win a national title 174 pounds you can win a national title at 165 so you're going 165 now here's the problem that is an accurate statement he cannot win it at 174 but to correct it a little bit he is not going to win it at 165 he on a very good day he's a top four guy in either weight class on a bad day he is a top eight guy in either weight class he's an all-american and he's on the stand so now you're only talking about three places here you're only talking about a handful of points and ultimately you have the athlete himself saying I will do my best work at 174 and you have the coach who happens to be dad tough spot saying no you will do your best work at 175 either way they just had a duel and hit step on the mat in this whole process and cover I don't I don't love these cover stories from these NCAA teams they think that it's very important when I was in Kiowa important that nobody knows what's going who gives a goddamn do you got a kid with it you got a kid that's got great issues the kid doesn't want to go to math club what's the difference what's your lineup and what's your team and what should we expect is fans what do you possibly have to gain by concealing the information but there seems to be something in that with it and nobody's gonna know we're gonna do we're not what are you talking about we're not gonna know what you're gonna do you do it every Saturday so what are you get you're gonna keep it a secret till next Saturday come on just tell us what's going on all right speeding this up a little bit it doesn't really matter up on that back me up on that it's annoying you said you're gonna bring your team well who in the hell is the team let us know who's Russ who's the team so we have something to get other people involved in right I I happen to watch you want us to build something goddammit who are you gonna put out there I happen to watch the state finals on track roster you got some drama and you're about to pull a two-time all-american and send him home to bring in your own son we'll build a storyline around that you can figure that out later but if that's what you're getting ready to do believe me we will build a story around this help us help you you don't do a damn favor for yourself keeping these secrets and you're wondering why you can't fill up a building by the way what are we can't fill up a building give us some information will help you give us my shoulder and I think that Martinelli is gonna be on the mat with Jojo I got something to see there and I have the right to know that ahead of time if I think I'm gonna show up i'ma see Martinelli on the mat with Chandler Roger I have the right to know that I feel I really think I do as a consumer now the easy the easy pick is Rogers at Rogers at 65 and Jojo at 74 and Jacobi at 84 done dinner yeah I understand all of those things but there's one part that's missing and I can't produce his name for you and that's there eighty four pounder when he's not hurt and he's good he doesn't have the paper and he's not all-american but I've watched him and this guy can wrestle I'm not sure first off I'm not positive they can beat him I'm not positive of that now Jacoby has looked so good that he probably can but see it's one of these things and there's some guys that end up like this so you take Chandler for example and the large scuttlebutt is that he beats Jojo in the room I tend to believe that in here is why Roger is such a trickster and he has such a tricky so you remember Matt Horwich from Team Quest okay mad whore which was so unorthodox and awkward I mean he went on that run he all the way to a championship and what we knew is his teammates and none of this is an aqua whatsoever hope it doesn't sound like one well we knew as his teammates is on a daily basis he doesn't win any rounds in the room he's the champion he's unfit of all these different things but isn't when he rounds in the room here's why it's not because he wasn't great there was a blueprint to beat him there was a very clear blueprint if you felt him and went with him on a regular basis that you could implement that blueprint and you could beat him including in practice room rounds but all of the outsiders who hadn't seen him and hadn't got to feel that would all fall for the same trick which was to exhaust themselves in the rope-a-dope and then he's gonna tie you up and that jujitsu and have his way with you and one after the next after the next all the way to the championship put down that way and I just personally believe that if you felt Rogers on a daily basis it some of that mystique and some of those tricks would would quickly go away so I think if he did have a wrestle off with his teammate it it likely isn't to go his way with as many horses as Oklahoma State has if everything went right for them they still don't beat Penn State right that's right uh-huh well don't don't forget Penn State brought back onto the mat right now five returning NCAA champions there's only ten weight classes what do you want to do I want a brick to fall on your head I mean what the hell do you wanted to I do not want to break the fall but what do you want to do right sometimes their life you're screwy what do you wait to do have a brick just Falls Falls anyway you kind of beat I mean it's it's a very tough spot and it's very hard to see things unraveling there there could there could be some movement at 65 I I mean Joseph is in a very tough weight class he was in a tough way class the last two years with Isaiah there and he got through it but there could be some movement there but it's it's very tough to imagine with nickel it's very tough to imagine with North Hall's gonna have to wrestle he can do it but there could be some movement there but you're still talking about a number of champions and yeah it's it's gonna be hard to to catch them