WWE vs AEW The Return Of Monday Night Wars Podcast

[Applause] hello and welcome to another wrestling round table discussion podcast I'm Adam will born from what codes are joined by the Dudley Boyz of what culture Michael Hamlet and Michael ceedric to discuss another burning wrestling issue but before we get into it if you're a fan of this sort of thing make sure you subscribe to what coach arresting on either iTunes or Spotify for daily podcasts where we review Raw Smackdown pay-per-views we have interviews we have more roundtable discussions like this and we have a round of the week complete when they were learning it a quiz of course on wrestle culture the gents are knee to discuss today the possible return of the Monday Night Wars could we see this happen with the growth of AE W well given the fact that the trademark the show name Tuesday night dynamite I would say it's maybe a bit of a stretch but just you know deflect the comments in the comments section we did want Monday Night Wars for the SEO it's just it's just a lot easier to wear make a little bit more money from the podcast please all I can about I mean the principle of the thing remains the same where it's on Monday night or whatever rumor has it that they have secured a major national TV deal that will see them not head-to-head compete with WWE but by putting a two-hour program weekly on a major network this is essentially the closest thing we'll get to the Monday Night war what do you think in the place where Smackdown used to be as well because obviously smoking will be gone it will be off to Friday very much like end of the week spot that wasn't particularly favorable for it once upon a time Friday Night Smackdown was the lowest raid era for the history of the show and we know that Fox's I packed a huge but if a Dover you're kind of giving wrestling fans as they fail earlier in the week that's gonna like chase people off from bother in their asses on a Friday night to stick with it and that's the sort of stuff that makes me some understand to prepared tension him getting told off by Network is not the sort of thing he wants at this time in his life so that's the kind of way as we saw when he was rattled by the press conference the people coming into their the Jacksonville taping in their aw t-shirts did far more for a Joey's brand then I would say they're rollin rally you know it wasn't the best produced bit of like sort of launch material they could have done but the reports the next day about the do Tyrion angry about it certainly was mmm now we've obviously this isn't gonna be the first time that we've seen a major American wrestling company in gang a TV deal and arguably going up against WWE but this strikes me is very different to TNA and empower impact as therefore you know well the creative minds aren't complete idiots for a start which really will like stand them in good stead I mean if you look at the roster TNA somehow amassed in 2010 name-value alone it was deeply deeply impressive but they were so stupid that they had Jeff Hardy who was the most organically babyface popular star in North America at the time not only did he not and did the announce him or not not on the 2010 comeback they didn't know they had every knot in every other star on coming back from a year a bygone era before Jeff Hardy put him himself was just rocking up in the X Division you know Gary early understand that you want to create a buzz and maybe emulate what used to do in the actual Monday Night Wars and then have like a surprise jump but that's when you've got an established based on that night you don't debut Jeff Hardy is sort of like it just an X Division guy when he's main event and WWE shows as then lose popular babyface four months later just in this particular segment but I'm using that to launch one exercise which aim for TNA context by the way that was four months removed from him getting a drugs bust in September 2009 he was away in charge and I was like we can use them we'll just not tell anybody in the in the market yeah that's what you won't do that's what I was getting at yeah like the minds behind all the wrestling I think if maneuver themselves into position because they are deeply deeply intelligent guys who know exactly what the audience is and who exactly who have made connections with and tony kahn and i think if any entity since 2001 is best equipped to compete with WWE given what we know of the t-shirt sales and hot hot topic given what we know they managed with them smash success really of all in which is like acted as a platform for this i think there's no wrestling minds but equipped to do this to grasp the audience and potentially to grow their existing audience quite like the elite right now I'm keen to say what classifies is a big Network in 2019 as well I think that will be a more important part of the story the maybe what people are realizing you know yes they've put so much of this product together off the back of being the elite which is on YouTube you know they made their wrestling Fame through like growth by something like the Internet which is far more important than it was two decades earlier or even when T&A launched like relaunched the Monday night was in 2010 the now plays a far bigger role and ever did but big network still means more I think to people in terms of actually mounting a threat do we do because that's thing it's almost like do we do we is unassailable now it's something different than what it was when we stood up he was taking a run it and the night is it's something different on what it was when TNA were taking run in 2010 it's become the Disney of pro wrestling like pin someone always wanted to the point where they II could very well sell it off to an another major organization and just walk away from it so I think what all elite wrestling has to do if it does land like a major TV network deal is look immediately like it's as big a deal my concerns are that they'll just assume that storylines and the rest of the hye-rin are gonna be the difference makers time and time again that's proven not the case they have to do things differently across the board the talent contracts have to be different the company has to present a different front face ideologically everything about it has to be different to how do we do it does business otherwise it'll always look like an inferior product so I'd say like the wider mainstream audience they're not gonna pick up the nuances that we might appreciate the guys watching this channel might appreciate it because to them wrestling is w e Vince achieved a stadium in Korea now they've got to be so much more different than that and a big network I think will give them the best possible opportunity because it's the biggest possible platform and do you think you know in terms of WWE are trying their best to say that there really aren't bothered W do you think that when the time comes in the week of let's say the T V launch of aw they'll try and counter book that or or do you think they will try and just present the best product they possibly can I think in a manner of speaking they'll try and compete I don't think they're capable of that everyone says now all right now that there's actual competition for like talent and like audience share and all the rest of it now WWE gonna get good they're gonna do these things that we want them to do like great story lines they're gonna book the talent and push the talent that we've lobbied for audibly across arenas for the last couple of years are they capable at this point I don't know it was all about rabbits out of hats when they were good at that sort of thing I think and TNA is one that the one always sticks like in my mind from the January 20 January 4 2010 impact which was this incredible episode of impacts where they just threw everything at this it wasn't even on Monday night like permanently the point at which it was an incredible spectacle yeah it was yeah and it would not necessarily LA was terrible it was like look at this guy look at this guy look at this guy and it was a one-off mundane I think that kind of big at this fake Monday night was and did you really count a program by bringing Bret Hart back the rest the show was garbage but it's bookended by - Bret Hart appearances and destroyed like it's prior numbers from the previous week did well impact still did really well but that raw was the best rated Raw in months I don't know what rabbits they've got left short CM Punk who if he was going to go anywhere you would fancy - aw I don't know what they've got up their sleeve anymore that compares that sort of thing because nothing from the weekly churn will I don't think there's any one single character pick your favorite I know for you it'll be Daniel Bryan pick quite titus o'neil pick whoever your favorite full-time guys at the moment and nothing they can do in storyline terms is that kind of magic trick like and we've seen from Royal 25 we've seen from Smackdown 1000 nothing is so powerful from a nostalgia point of view that it's gonna draw like huge numbers in who haven't been watching for a few years there's very few guys out there other than Punk that I can certainly think of that would telephone I've got a tune in tonight of all nights the big one of the big things we sort of referenced when it came to the Monday Night Wars initially and you don't hock on about but when you know TNA would re pick up WWE scraps to some extent when they were signing people the big talk obviously with a W is the fact that they are genuinely an alternative for WWE fu or contract is running out in WWE in the next year they are a feasible alternative for you like you say for regular television for paper views for things like that do you think we're gonna see a lot more crossover of talent between the two are you not working for both at the same time but like we used to in terms of snatching up talent and shock appearances on TV but either way the there's two key changes and differences now between now and how the original Monday Night Wars played out key among them is that the contractual situations different now W is so loaded with financial muscle that I'm thinking that the word Neville's gonna be invoked is a verb going forward I mean they could theoretically if someone's contract isn't help then that talent wants to leave there's nothing stopping them which we know from Preston from them just saying right okay well we can't go anywhere because we're not gonna release you from your contract it's different now to what it was then like guys are working on my handshake deals Rick Rude was yeah and yeah that kind of thing doesn't happen anymore they are completely locked in to really prohibitive contracts supported by this complete beast of a legal department which should preclude in my opinion anything like we used to see in the late 90s I mean the beauty of like it like you say sort of like being like McMahon jail or something is that the release is immediately more captivating so it's almost like wrestlers can sit like in obscurity for six months and funds won't forget them anymore Neville is a great example of that because for ten months or whatever it was people asked where's never when are we getting Neville and as soon as he's back out in Dragon Gate or the independent circuit people just want to see him they can't get enough juice massive when he came over here as well so a IDO be theoretically can dine out on the fact that these like look don't worry of taking your favorite wrestlers off you and we're about to give them back that's something that they can use in a way that's different than he was on Raw last week and now he's on nitro that's how they can actually use that kind of change in landscape for themselves I do think those kind of deals are important they're especially early on because I think perception is hugely important it kind of goes back to I'm saying about the size of the network it's all well and good to get a major TV deal but impacts have had like one TV deal after another and each time they end up on a smaller network than the last and people think less and less and less of that brand so if you've got a big network and you furnish it with like I don't to say household names because not many wrestlers are now but like names that to the wider wrestling audience are well-known enough I think you stand a good chance of like creating this idea that the brand means something like it's a bit of a DAF comparison but I was talking to somebody in the office last week about like guys that could potentially go and I looked at two guys like Sasha and Bailey on Raw at the moment been terribly booked for the better part of a couple years they're not going to have the impact on the industry like someone like Scott Hall and Kevin Nash made Kevin Nash did by going south to do ECW but it looks about on due to EE that they've let these talent down and you have to trust in a to ease management structure to make a better life for those guys and that would be what would look good on a dory long term do you think that with the pressure from aw and like you say them sniffing around certain talents it would open WWE's eyes a little bit more and they might book people better I mean the revival is a perfect example of someone that the crowd have wanted to see booked correctly and pushed well and it hasn't happened and it seems it's gonna go one of two ways they either gonna be booked into obscurity until their deals run out and they can finally make that move - aw and face the inbox like they keep hinting out on Twitter or WW go alright we realized that we messed up and then they throw their full weight behind them I keep going back to the fact that they are absolutely incapable I mean do you honestly think like earlier last year Daniel Bryan comes back makes it magical return from injury not only is that story just incredible incredibly resonant with a fan base that had missed him so dearly not only did you have the return short-term injection but you also had that ready-made program with the Miz neither of those things hit at all they were both completely completely disappointed like underwhelming to the point where dave melts has used these two words together and I think they're perfect promotional malpractice that's what happened with Daniel Bryan now they didn't design a push so poor like poorly liked by sheer design they completely and utterly botched a story that now as I've written in an article I would say like several hundred reddit users crafted a better storyline between them isn't Daniel Bryan then creative manage I just don't think it's his case I don't want scruff him on to this day ya know I just don't think it's as clear as all right okay we're not to try now I've got competition I think maybe that could have been true a couple years ago certainly not now that company like smackdowns really good like it really is good but raw is a program it's just so bad so so bad and it just makes us think that they can't do it on purpose not just doing this ranked formula like lazy storytelling because it's easy and the Vora get the money I think it's all they're capable of well I think there's too much of an arrogance in the product to atone for bad booking anymore if their leaves guy say Dobby they'll just see that I was like oh well casually something didn't work out well like promote the next set of guys up and then they'll take the places are the ones that have just gone we've just opened up this Performance Centre in the UK next we go to this country meanwhile back at full sail there's this guy they'll feel like the wealth is never ever empty so any guys that disappear off the main roster that's okay because we'll just fill the slot with somebody from NXT UK and then we'll just fill the NXT UK slot with the next guy and the next guy in the next guy they believe and they might be right about this to be fair than they believe that they've got those systems in place now forever or as for as long as need to be that like they'll never have to worry about who they go wrong with the idea that go to aww and make something better for themselves and it affecting WWE is the kind of thing with unfortunately not gonna know until a dog who's been in business about five years and we can assess the impact and if it's not been in business five years we know that there's probably never any more point in anyone ever having to run it do we do we ever again this is like it feels like a perfect storm this yeah like great wrestling work or it never will like great wrestling Minds like the elite brand it's just so completely over to a certain audience that they've used like theoretically we can go on YouTube and create a channel off our own backs and it fails spectacularly the elite have grown such an audience on something that theoretically like anyone like anyone watching this or listening to this could go out and do what they've done is so impressive and they've done it because they're so deeply deeply creative just look at all in the way that card was booked it's all things for all men and so you've got that creative power married to like funded billionaire enterprise that this is like it's just it's never ever going to be like there's never gonna be a better entity poised yeah what essential things to aew have to do to provide a genuine competitive alternative not just for the loyal fans that like ourselves but you know people always talk about returning Reston to the good old days and I'm not saying that we're gonna record terms those figures that are always talked about in the 90s because it's a different era but to provide a genuine weekly alternative for WWWE what what do they have to do this might seem insignificant or superficial but it has to actually look good it has to look at major-league like from anecdotal evidence I've got people who when I first started writing out writing about pro wrestling I did it for another website and there's one guy who's really prominent on that website he was just so sick to the back teeth of out double W ebooks that he's actually not fun anymore he's renounced his fandom with Toby W e and he's gone on to right now about New Japan Pro Wrestling which is really good and I think a lot of people have similar stories like this and he said the one blockade from him properly investing and getting into New Japan Pro Wrestling was the production standpoint he just it didn't look as big in his glamorous and I think WWE themselves as massage this perception that bigger is better it's a spectacle you've got pyro you've got massive stadiums how can anything possibly be as good or as worthy as this everything else is unglamorous and corny corny old wrestling and I think it's a big big barrier for people getting into any independent wrestling by the fact that it looks small-time and another thing if you look at impact had similar struggles like the big meme whenever someone leaves us what's such-and-such doin in the impact zone the impact zones begin this really derogatory tiny little venue that couldn't hope to get many fans and again it's what Amplatz s's perception is reality if it looks small therefore it is small like I'm happy to open myself up as one of the delivery funds that situate described you know like raised on Hulk Hogan in the oval warrior the biggest possible version of that company that it can be and I watched that rally and I'm thinking well where is that billionaires money like I like I'm with them and I'll back him despite a poor first impression but I'm watching that and I was at times unimpressed and I'm thinking well here's your first opportunity to spend some of the money that were being told is gonna help create this new vision of pro wrestling and it wasn't really for me so like and I'm with you I'm already with you I'm already invested so there's an example of like sort of something where I kind of thought that's that one's like so don't let that slide when you appear on television for the first time um I was a devotee and err fun and unless actually bothered about what the output of the product looks like because mistakes will be made in the book in and sometimes Russ's won't deliver in the way you thought they would and there may be injuries and there may be changes I believe all the ways that they're going to change the wrestling world is by actually changing the rest of the world keep going back to like contracts and healthcare and insurance and pensions that's what's different to WEA doing the business differently looking after the wrestlers which in turn or sort of breed performances in a different way I'm not saying I want to take the competitive element now at the industry and I want the guys to be competing for the best spots and things like that but find their competitive nature a different way Vince McMahon loves pork in all of his bearings it sticks to fight each other to make for the best product and now there's no even reason for them to fight each other so you don't get a great product at the end of the day it worked in the Attitude Era and it works and the original is boom it doesn't work now and thus were left with the kind of like rank and file after rank and file instead of superstars promote that competitiveness by giving these guys a better alternative and a better way of working final question we're getting way too fired of ourselves here I'm gonna ask it regardless unless say aw launches is a success is a genuine alternative for WWE and they start feeling the pinch start feeling the heat perhaps is there any way that the growth of aw is the catalyst for Vince McMahon stepping aside to allow Triple H and the next generation and the evolution of WWE to happen I would say so in a dream land scenario which for me would be wrestling better for absolutely everybody fans and talent alike aew does capitalize on this initial buzz they managed to grow a product that as you say it gets an established audience that's established enough to keep them on a major TV station in effect they become competition I would say Vincent man's heads would have to be the first to fall because it's so strange no they've got like this big huge creative team of what 20-something people Jimmy em Jimmy Jacobs revealed on his podcast with Bryan Alvarez there's 20 odd people which I've known for some time they've got several ruled agents poking out the same old match like despite all of these rioters all of these ruled agents this deeply deeply talented roster virtually everything in that company to an extent is unilaterally decided decided upon by Vince McMahon he's the reason why so much of it is just awful and out of touch it doesn't matter how many arms this octopus has got he is the bloody head of it and if I'm a shareholder and my money is getting lost because there's one person that there at the helm who's Dated ideas are like given rise to competition in this ridiculously monopolized market I would just cut that octopuses head off there that's what I would do like for me there's three letters that pull Vince away from WV next year and it's not any W its XFL this is a perfect storm he's gonna walk away to do XFL stuff yes in 2020 like he did in 2001 when he took his eye off the ball the last time you know that like wrestlers now speak of that period where Vince was definitely busy with the XFL and it had a knock-on effect for the to the detriment of the degree and then he got back to it and like things gradually recovered a little bit when he was back you know in his chair every week where he was supposed to be not like funning on with this football project this time around is different there was a better infrastructure that he can leave behind to to do his XFL stuff the XFL is likely to be more successful than the last time as well and if a double you've had a good 2019 is he not gonna want a thing actually yeah I'll let you guys crack on with fixing that because I'm really enjoying my football thing like I actually could see him being nowhere near the product but he won't have anyone tell him that he needs to step aside it'll be on his own terms but I could say happening I'm not so sure about that my worst case scenario and in the face the XFL coming up is that he's already spread so thin you already get no sleep he's already got so many more arms of the company than ever before my worst case scenario is that he's even more impulsive he's even more inattentive to what's going on in even more rush last-minute challenges like the XFL stuff does not fill me with any calm about that product whatsoever or regardless it is gonna be an eventful 2019 for wrestling fans everywhere let us know your thoughts on this in the comment section below and don't forget to Like share and subscribe you can check us out on Twitter as well you on tweeter sirs it's at what culture W wash they can follow all three ways you can follow Michael Adams let's at Michael hum flip because you can't hear my sore throat in my tweets you can follow my Pacific at em Sidgwick and follow me at Adam will Boehner said follow us all at what culture WWE make sure you subscribe to our core dressing for daily podcast my thanks to the Dudley Boyz thank you for watching and we will see you soon [Music] Albert yes we can [Music] [Applause] [Music]