We Need to Talk About David Day

hello and welcome to talking talking today I'm going to talk about a Tolkien or that you might have seen if you've looked around Tolkien bookshelves or on Amazon or other online sites he's done lots of colorful works always well illustrated glossy nice-looking books really appealing on the shelves I myself have got one of his books which I've had for many years a guide to Tolkien in this book accompanied me when I was reading the Lord of the Rings and later came to read The Silmarillion and I'd refer to this as I read this story but as a problem there's a problem with David day who's the author of this because it turns out David day deceived me and if you've read his books he may have deceived you so you might be wondering what is the problem with David day after all he makes nice-looking books they're appealing they're easy to read and when you're dealing with something as as massive as what's hulking is created it is pretty good to have a guide in there because some of it can be pretty inscrutable than 80 certainly once you start getting into lineages and so I'll go into some of the obscure terms all that kind of stuff is good to have a bit of a guide certainly when you're dealing with this Silmarillion so what's the problem with this well the problems arise when David Day takes artistic liberties with what he's talking about so with Tolkien where he left in gaps David day sometimes will fill in those gaps with things that are of David days mind and not of Tolkien his mind and that might be fine but when this is being sold as a guide to Tolkien it doesn't differentiate between what David day's ideas are and what Tolkien's ideas are so then you end up in this situation which I've kind of ended up in where you don't know what's actual Tolkien and what's not and it just gets really confusing I think it'd be so much easier if there was a guide where it didn't take these artistic liberties you know it even being honest and saying some of this stuff Tolkien just didn't fill out or you know there's inconsistencies which there isn't some of the work but I'm not going to make such a old claims that we might backing up so let's have a look into the book a couple of entries and see where some of the issues can arise so the first entry I'll use as an example is do women like this is what David Day has to say about him in the lands of Rohan in the time of the riders of the mark all such haunting spirits were named to him alike such were the superstitions if these were here in horsemen that even the elves of lothlórien and the ends of Fangorn were named Durham a lake and were thought to be similar evil spirits that's fine if you just read that you think right dream awake then that's a term that the Rohirrim used for like haunting spirits those kind of things now the problem is that Tolkien doesn't use that the only time we ever mentions to him awake is when a Owen defeats the lord of the Nazgul at the Battle of Pellinore fields she calls him delimit Lake so from there David days extrapolated all of this extra stuff about I'm talking about ends in that way so it just leads to confusion and unless you really know like exactly when tolking referred to this stuff you're not going to know it so it's easy to slip through and then you just think I had to Himalaya class or they all they will call it another example this is one that even I thought was a bit odd when I was getting into talking is about Tom Bombadil okay so it lives in the old forest road I bumped into him at the early parts of The Lord of the Rings now this is what he has to say Tom Bombadil Maya master of old forest called Yahweh in Vinod ah which means both old and without father by the elves he was probably a mile spirit that came to middle-earth in the ages of starlight I know where does Tolkien talk about Tom Bombadil being in my are spirit which is similar to Gandalf and the other wizards in letters Tolkien said that he was supposed to be enigmatic he wasn't supposed to be like clear what his original origins were so again that's just going off on one and writing that's David days Ryan not Tolkien's which is fine if you do a book which is called you know going to David days interpretation of Tolkien but the idea is this supposed to be about talking causes some issue another example is Giants so we know Giants exist in Tolkien's world they are referred to and in The Hobbit even Gandalf said that they could get a giant to come and knock down the goblins new gate so they are referred to there but this is what David Day has to say about Giants also in the tales of hobbits there were rumors of great Giants who in league with orcs guarded the high passes in rebellion there is nothing about that there is nothing about these giants that aligned with orcs it's a complete fabrication but again it doesn't specify that here so you wouldn't know there's a fabrication so you just read it and I could say it just takes your understanding of talking what I will say though it says some loving aren't working here there's a nice picture of Gandalf that I've always liked so it's not all bad by any stretch but you just need to be clear if you're reading David thing final example I'll give is the map of aldur which is the world that Tolkien created talking made his own little map of it which we'll look at shortly but David day used his own embellishments again to create this map of Arda and what this does is neatly combined middle-earth on the right you can probably make out this Shire and Gondor and more door with the undying lands on the left which is where the elves go when they say a night of middle-earth there's even the kingdom of men Numan ah which is the island you can see in the middle now I'm sure this is a lovely map but it's a complete fabrication it includes Beleriand in the northwest of middle-earth which existed in the first stage but was flooded during the war of Wrath similarly the lands in the east and south have never been mapped there's nothing by Tolkien say they should look like this it's just full of issues trying to cram three ages into one lap and is entirely inaccurate the problem is now when you google are their map this is one of the first results and there seems to be confusion about whether it's genuine or not for context here's Tolkien's map of aldur the best maps of all are in Karen Wynne font stands up as at middle-earth which I'll look at in a future video but anything I started that and Tolkien himself I would take with a huge pinch of now I know what you're thinking you're thinking well if David days a little bit unreliable then what other stuffs out there you've got the Internet I suppose but we all know you can't trust anything you read on the internet or watch so what other things are right there Wow just so happens we've got this which is the complete guide to middle-earth now this is by Robert Foster and this was released back in the late 70s in fact there was an earlier edition from 1971 then it was updated after The Silmarillion came out and even Christopher Tolkien himself said that this had been really useful in like writing the history of middle-earth because of the references were all accurate and he didn't embellish it so that's a really nice book Robert Foster but I know what you're thinking is well you're thinking yeah that's nice but David days books they're they're so nicely illustrated there's nothing else like that out there checking this out so this is the complete guide to middle-earth by Robert Foster some crucial things about this because it's got the jrt logo on so this is properly sanctioned by the Tolkien estate and published by HarperCollins and it's a big old book and similarly to The Silmarillion illustrated edition this is illustrated by Ted nasmyth and the illustrations in here are as beautiful as you'd expect them to be so here's the book which is pretty large thing is even quite difficult to to hold and go through we get some beautiful pictures in here as well as some really Authority of writing about who's who and a lot of depth so it's just a really nice book which I wholeheartedly recommend so hopefully that's been useful I've seen it in a few conversations over on social media mesas where people start to criticize David Day and often it's not made clear exactly what the issues are with David Day now I'm going to say don't buy his books I'm sure that they're very nice and you know have them as gift so ever but just need to be clear that when you're reading it there's a couple of issues there and also to know that there's a really nice book and that you can also buy that does the same thing that far more accurately Adam and Alison link below not for any of David days books I'm afraid you're on your own they're here but I'll add on for this so it's going to get this then you can follow that link and apart from that if you've enjoyed the video please like and subscribe to the channel and thanks for watching talking talking have a good day [Music]

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