What Is Wrestlings Best Ever Work

[Applause] hello and welcome to another wrestling round table discussion podcast I'm Adam Wilborn from what coach you're joined by the Dudley Boyz of what culture Michael Hanford and Michael Sidgwick to discuss another burning wrestling issue but before we get into it if you're a fan of this sort of thing make sure you subscribe to what coach wrestling on either iTunes or Spotify for daily wrestling podcast a review pay-per-views Raw Smackdown we have interviews we have more roundtable discussions and we have a round of the week complete with a quiz of course on wrestle culture but gents the question I want you to answer today centering around all the discussion of Dean Ambrose's future is what is wrestling's best ever work but before we start talking about that I want to know your thoughts on this dean ambrose situation there's obviously been a lot of discussion about him leaving the company when his contract expires in April don't we do released a statement where they didn't use their typical future endeavors lime easy leaving the company or is this all a work you go first he's not going anywhere it's a work I don't trust anything in the industry anymore like we've as like a sort of a community of funds that unfortunate not to be able to get to talk about it and write about it and report upon it occasionally and we've been given so many stories over the last few years from the industry that is wrestling's attempt to try and deal with this post kayfabe world they can no longer like hiding the secrets of the industry things come out things reported every week so all the time wer trying to like work us work us as funds to try and find a way to make us invest again they know that we know that a lot of their superstars are unhappy someone like Dean Ambrose is a prime candidate for that because look at what we've had a watch like us as fans haven't wanted to see Dean Ambrose doing this so why would be number as the performer particularly want to be getting involved in the storylines this just seems yet another perfect storm for duty we to be able to promote something is actually really happening then sure enough when we think he's out the door after WrestleMania he wins as much surprises as all and sticks around for another six months or reassigned like CM Punk did or whatever it's just like last year it was Nikki Bella and John Cena everything always feels like a work until it's categorically proven and not be they were splitting up and but together again because it made sense to popper rate in until Bella's before they finally split and I'd call it my general mistrust of these stories until he turns up as gen max Li on Tuesday night dynamite or something like that I'll I'll reserve judgment right what compelling evidence that you've seen on WWE television in the past like couple years compels you to think that the we W E is capable of pulling off such a vast conspiracy like this the just lit returned rusev he'll 48 hours after the guy he was feuding with engineered a situation in which his wife's uncle got shuttered you were giving me a me just forgive her you were giving me the evidence because the left hand never knows what the right I'll see they're not capable of something like this like literally everyone's been worked like was it who brought the story was a Killam my Killam yeah like I'm peeing on people reputation Dave Meltzer is more or less we hasn't corroborated it but he said that he firmly believes it's a shoot situation in order for this to have happened for w/e to have presented this is a work they've buried their creative by saying one of the top stars is so fed up with it that he's willing to leave and I think it was just a very creative before as well I know that just literally built with Barron Corman yeah but this is just too much it was the message it was honestly and why we came in it was the statement when we came in to work and I was fully on board I was like well aftershock but I'm not surprised and I think we're all kind of reacted with that oh good fing good and now you see that statement at the end of the day all right now fixes in like one the way that they jumped on top of it in a very different way of how they would normally which is to say not all until he's actually out the door and then it's the future endeavors message that felt entirely different and to me that was them wanted to create the story like not wanted to create the story but want to create the story in a different way like you've got Meltzer in the news sources all they ever pick up on is rumors and what they're told from they're fairly reliable sources so who's to say that this source wasn't given that information reliably before debris we could leak it in the way they want it to leak it okay another question before we get going with the actual work right why would the these lengths to put Dean Ambrose over and that starts light on Dean Ambrose himself but like the creative they've been given him isn't like terrible because I don't be abysmal because I don't believe this is a Dean Ambrose problem I think we've witnessed how aware they are of people's understanding of ADA's recent impact this arms race assigned talents who were the wise probably won't get jobs on the weekend that Jeff Jarrett and Shane Helms get jobs as producers which is not say they won't do great work but it's probably as much as anything jeremy Borash telling Triple H get these guys hired before they go elsewhere because they'll provide value we're reading stories that like several wrestlers are feeling disillusioned within WV and are aware that there's suddenly a brand new option out there this is a way for them to finally capitalize on that other than just Twitter footage of guys getting the t-shirts taken off them if they can create this illusion of dissent backstage with a character perfectly place for it like Dean Ambrose we saw Chronicle we know he's a man that kind of exists on the fringes of that company as it is they could look at everything right how can we deal with this character that we've missed cast as a comedy psychopath here in yourself yeah I but look I after WrestleMania like I'll come on this podcast and like lose my own pasty bet to this sort of thing as it were and say yeah all right I was wrong he's gone but I just feel like there's enough times where you have been worked by this of real news as it were getting out there is no real news in wrestling until something has actually happened can I ask you one more question before we get into the meat of this right you're Dean Ambrose in this situation right you have been told you know what to get he'll heat you can have to bury one of your best mates forgetting the Kimia you're gonna have to tell each and every city you go to while wearing a gas mask that they smell and you're gonna have to wrestle this match that with you is the heel in the dynamic fans have been clamoring for for ages it's a wild blood feud brawl manifest and at the end of this storyline it's gonna be a normal wrestling match that's gonna get booed out the building and put into the death slot would you want to stay with the company um if given this proposition and the works we're going to talk about today were all devised quite you know complexly to generate discussion on all guys if he's in a position where he's going to have the discussion which we're having now generated about him what was going to be the discussion about him otherwise nothing three days before us I'm only we were gonna say you're looking forward to Dean Ambrose versus ac3 not very much like all of a sudden he's been a huge talking point if this is something and there are precedents for as we will go into for somebody to be reheated through a situation like this then I'm more like to say yes to that after having said yes to what I just said yes see the past two or three months I think those terrible storylines that were probably driving his motivation or want something better especially while the industry is kind of so exciting so exciting again with opportunities for wrestlers I'm inclined to agree with handful here but I think regardless I've said this at multiple occasions already regardless whether or not this is a work it's beneficial for Dean Ambrose if he stays and hopefully they'll give him something good and this is a launch pad for some legitimately decent he'll work and if he leaves he's been given this announcement he's leaving to get all the other companies excited and it there'll be a bidding war because lots of people want to see him but anyway let's move on let's we want to talk about some of wrestling's best ever where the real ones yeah we should we should start off with a fairly obvious one in relation to this and that of course is CM Punk's pipe bomb at the time you know how did you feel about it and subsequently looking back what are your opinions on it this was to its ultimate detriment business-wise the sort of thing that just completely inspired me to believe in the product the problem being is that I've had I hate it like every time you say these words you come across as a complete idiot or a complete bellend but like I've just preferred the inside of the wrestling industry for like several several years now I am and I hate the word itself but in many ways I'm like a smoky fan like I'm obsessed with the intrigue in the backstage fascination I like technical wrestlers more than the Big Show and Kane all the rest of it in many ways on the worst kind of Pro Wrestling fun let's face it this angle and the the incent perumal that served as the catalyst to it was directly aimed at me aboard hook line and sinker but I wasn't the fan that ultimately was going to change CM Punk's true headline Korea which arguably never happened it's funny yeah the promo you make a great point there because I remember that promo so fondly in the way that he It was as if he'd wrote out a list of things he had to check off that would like bore directly into my soul as I like as an Internet experience wrestling fan is not exactly who saw sick is seen ER and all the way yeah like he found every single hot point like things like mentioning Colt Cabana by name or like referencing John Laurinaitis or Triple H and Stephanie McMahon it has family members in the next in life yeah yeah everything he said like the mention of New Japan Ring of Honor all these are very now weakened came and wasn't him and then as well yeah like charming almost and little things that we were aware of a band list and he was right I'm gonna take off that I'm gonna take off that even the word wrestling I'm the best wrestler in the year it was so perfectly engineered to capture all of us and I think that many of us spoke about it was that was why it kind of bled over into the mainstream and all of a sudden San punks been interviewed by GQ and Money in the Bank 2011 is what it is a bit for you and sure enough assigns a new contract so if it was if really if it wasn't a work at that moment Vince McMahon's best part of the of this of his involvement in the work was giving Punk the autonomy for 15 minutes at the end of an edition of Raw that was a really clever calculated risk by a guide obviously still had it in him to get the best out of his talent because over the course of that what T three weeks that was left and punk did it again and again there's the segment's with John Cena and Vincent Martin so brilliant and yet underrated because they're left in the shadow of the pipe bomb but everything that was happening on television around that time it was utterly utterly gripping every word that was spoken mad-marlin it had mattered in years because of the stuff that eat basically allowed it was like releasing a lot of ghosts back onto the pot like on at the product that was suddenly like sort of speaking around everybody like it was all it was like nothing was off-limits all over again during a time when it was so a micromanage now I think that was the value of that by then it was you know becoming a work that was the real value of it was just like allowing the ship to breathe on one week would suddenly give the wrestlers new things to work about you you look back oh this is one of my first things obviously popped into my head you look back on that time and yes looking back they really botched the summer of punk and yen throughout that there was still an element to me that felt confident that they were gonna pull this round beak and that was only instilled because of it I thought they can come up with something as good as this pipe bomb promo and like you said the two weeks after that he brings out a megaphone say I've got a bought brac back up this week and what have you even though they had money in the bank and then they brought him back what eight days later and even though you had him you know teaming up with Triple H and losing and Kevin Nash and all that it instilled such faith in me that no people thinking that this is all part of a bigger plan it wasn't but it was like you say it reestablished an adoration for them for the product that I've been I'd been missing for a long time Michael said week what's what some of your favorite works in wrestling right we couldn't get the American stuff imminently but I want to talk about work engineered by all Japan Pro Wrestling in 1994 because it hits all my buttons is one of the most realistic things to have ever happened that was framed as really happening when in fact it was a work and there's also a an undertone of cruelty to at all so in the 1994 Champions carnival I'm an American wrestler by the name of doug furnas dropped the legend and by that point company ace Mitsuru misawa with a suplex that he sold as if like i'm really injured here and it give you some context most Japanese wrestlers especially tragically Misawa if they were hurt they would never tell you they would battle through the worst injuries to preserve their aura as gladiators it's just part of the culture and a mentality over there so for this to be sold as I'm missing the rest of the tournament was major so major that you would never ever doubt that it was a lie but the genius twist is that it was a lie and doug furnas and the aftermath was completely Baalak by everybody even the ones who were in on it and it was kept very very far away from those who were not and Stan Hansen gave him a massive massive taken off backstage it was and the end result of all this was that doug furnas felt awful he felt awful word got out to Misawa that Doug Furnas felt horrific about this whole development and Misawa called furnace into the locker room and he made a gesture to everyone else in there to get out and doug furnas at this point is thinking heart can take getting bolotoff messiah himself I've just completely almost ruined his career and he's the biggest star in Japanese wrestling on one of them at this point Misawa when everybody else is out the room takes off the neckbrace and just goes like that this isn't a silent gesture to say I'm fine it's a work go with it but don't tell anybody because it's a work I would need to maintain em all of it and so the purpose this served was that Misawa was the champion the Triple Crown champion going in at this tournament which he was booked to lose but they didn't want to weaken him to set up a future match so by going to these lengths to take him out toshiaki kawada ended up winning the tournament and then to follow up it's very elaborate so let me gather my thoughts for a second Kawada now Misawa then lost the title to Steve Williams but because his neck had been injured he went in to the match having suffered the injury so it like protected him completely then Kawada beat Williams for the Triple Crown title that he'd beaten Misawa for thus setting up a Kawada vs. worse our match and all the while Doug Furnas was sat there thinking I've been screwed over here because he told Stan Hansen in confidence look the whole things at work and Stan Hansen just went no don't lie to make yourself feel better about this so cruel but completely effective and it built towards something unlike the CM Punk thing which built towards possibly the worst few months until we w/e history I think that's interesting as well because we talk about these works and some of them are very elaborate and very special as a fun but when it doesn't provide a business-related payoff and it doesn't solve it rarely does as well you know yeah this is the thing they don't often generate revenue or generate something common metric with which we judge great pro-wrestling by the summer pumping probably the prime example and the water I could go with basically a substantially less sophisticated version of Michael civics which is every state melts as well T which is John Cena just saying I'm not gonna go back to October and WB sin all right let's go with that knowing full well that he could be rehabbed by January to create one of the greatest pops which we discussed the other way the Madison Square Garden accidental pop all those mutants in there that follow them all the New York scene like a crowd that would just despise a John Cena that for a second we reduced her like Hulkamaniacs than the modern era cheering for him you don't get that unless you've been worked so believably that you know Vincent mind got the poppy one John Cena when it won the Royal Rumble mine is also cuz me and Cedric over a similar age and whole things from the midnight is in such high value is one that was so important for the growth of ECW and a guy that is incredible at their the worksheet was Paul Heyman in 1994 he had a problem with Tommy Dreamer her guy who he believed was the baby face that EC desperately needed but not one and it could get particularly over with that crowd he would late to do that and as you'll be able to find him very cc to read documentary DVDs where he took a cane in the likes of which nobody had ever seen this level of abuse that he just braved to the Sandman the storyline that triggered that much that story that got Tommy Dreamer finally over as a baby face was one in which the Sandman who would famously come to the ring cigarette in mouth Canon hand and cane flew backwards and not the cigarette in of Sandman's I so ECW is this promotion that pride itself on bloodthirsty reality within matches but all of a sudden Paul him and had this such deft touch on making that what you've just seen so much more real and everything else you've watched all night Sandman felt the ground clutching his eye and Joey Styles called it brilliantly on commentary Tommy Dreamer as he was particularly good at looked like this suddenly like you overcome with remorse what have I done no matter what we do to each other and ECW Arena this is different I've blinded you how would it Paul him and in the someone get this one across to theoretically the smartest wrestling fans in the country they made the Sandman stay in his house for months on end with a bandage over his eye if anyone ever came at the door it was his wife that answered it if he was ever seen in public it was with the bandage over his eye to the point where someone's retirement was booked for the ECW Arena and people in that crowd again the most bloodthirsty wrestling crowd in America were in tears they were watching a man they sent to someone out there in a suit to retire to say farewell to this crowd a career that admittedly was pretty daft but he was beloved there he was a cool hero there a career taken too soon Tommy Dreamer is out there woman the son lands manager at the time is already just disowning him to the hatred of the crowd how dare she turn on a guy he's lost a sight for this industry who lost his sight fighting her battles Tommy Dreamer the guy that's done the damage is saying a woman how can you do this how can you do this and from behind Tommy Dreamer The Sandman rips away the bandage and just leathers him with the cane this dreamer is a figure of hate in the ECW Arena but someone they're just the wave of relief that washes over the easy to be arena that he's fine it suddenly replaced by total and utter shock they say in dreamer getting beat down and that is the first point which Paul Heyman has finally created sympathy for this pretty boy babyface who would effectively become like the one that literally wore the company on his chest every time he came out how do you finally create a baby face in a world designed for heels that's how you do it you've got to make it feel real I think the point that needs a little bit more illustration that was really well done really well put is the fact that this audience was the smartest and they loved to tell everyone how smart they were then we just rendered literally dumbfounded by this whole angle it's superb Lee done the sign guy a visa to the arena was a guy that would take signs with what were effectively spoilers because he knew insider terms when a few people did so he was there literally signpost and sterilized just to show how clever he was and jaws were on the floor you know yeah at one other work that I really wanted to mention is very slightly more old school than what we've been talking about that's Andy Kaufman and Jerry Lawler it is one of those things you have to look back on obviously we went around at the time but you know watch watching I mean my first awareness of it was watching man on the moon Jim Carrey and need careful man a story you then also see it followed up on the documentary that was on Netflix about it just to summarize this basically Andy Kaufman and and Joe Leone had got their heads together didn't they and and explained that through that through a chat show they were gonna develop a feud that they were both in on but it felt not just for the rest in community but for everybody that this was a real thing that Andy Karen and Joel on hate each other's guts that Andy Kaplan was wrestling women and this got the judge Jerry Lawler and yeah it's arguably one of the biggest works because this wasn't just the wrestling community this is the the general public of America who watched this chat show and suddenly think Jesus this is suddenly got really out of hand they're fighting on a chat show it doesn t yearn for a simpler time in that regard isn't it because this sort of thing could never ever happen though it's simply it's a lost art the idea that anyone would believe either an actor or a wrestler for that matter could pull off something like this and it'd be legitimate it would be on Twitter and immediately like thousands of people would pick apart how what you've watched is definitely staged they were given the advantage of like probably word-of-mouth more than people that saw it on television like what what have we heard here a wrestler is beating up a celebrity I thought the wrestling wasn't real well it can't be because look what he's doing he's in a neck brace that was enough that was all people needed but what I really liked about this work is how the work of Andy Kaufman in particular traveled through to Jim Carrey like performing it has Andy Kaufman if you watched that fabulous Netflix documentary which is basically all about Jim Carrey and body and everything about Andy Kaufman Jerry Lawler hits Jim Carrey playing Andy Kaufman for real the work of that work managed to work Jerry Lawler twenty years after that after the real thing had happened like Jim Carrey had found a way to tap into this incredible actors soul and become the man himself and Jerry Lawler once he was there behind the scenes with his arm around and ago and we got on it suddenly being gotten to that's quite remarkable that kind of thought put you in the mindset of somebody like Kaufman to be able to devise this whole thing in the first place for the betterment of everybody and one other thing we need to mention here and I know you're chomping at the bit to talk about this is Vince Russo and Hulk Hogan bash at the beach we have to mention it it's a very obvious work it's but it wasn't in a different realm to the other things that we've mentioned here and I feel like we should mention it this is going to be quite hard because it was a work that was a word shoot that ultimately resulted in it being a shoot because someone had worked themselves into a shoot actually sounds like Hulk Hogan's the whole Kogan's tweet of a pro wrestling angle and it's rooted in true so much truth that it became a shoot but it was work a work chewed Jesus Christ bash at the beach mm what's happened here is that to try and get a whole Corgan like the title wrapped off him because he didn't want to do a traditional job to Jeff Jarrett who many actual headliners didn't consider a headliner and so he said right okay let's just do some bollocks I'll lay down from in the middle of that ring and he can cook one of his stupid super amoled Russo and I'll get out and then theoretically we could work to return much or something yeah so that happens and Hogan says this is why the company's it is in the state it's in it's because of bullsh like this he lays down three count the sell the shark a lot of people at this point has totally bum use because it seems so much of it before organ leaves with the belt backstage yeah just sell it like it's rude airless it's wall-to-wall paranoia you could always even know how effectively these sort of things were played out it didn't matter because there was always the sense that because Russell had driven this troupe into the ground something's up like something's up he cannot possibly take something like this at face value something stinks because everything at this point that Vince Russo was associated with stunk to high heaven something stinks here something stinks so the show goes on I think yeah and then Vince Russo comes back out later in the show to explain the situation and again even though the whole thing was intended as a work the only way they arrived at the work was because the shoot tension like actually existed and getting this whole situation like so hard to golly I know like getting there's a lot people are playing a drinking game at work or shoot you have to drink but in order to engineer this situation which was like sort of a last resort because discussions about how to like deal with the title picture in Hogan's creative control clause and how to get Jeff Jarrett look and not like a moron out of all of this things were tense things will eject so Vince Russo cut in this explanatory promo which was theoretically designed to build towards a match that never did end up happening he worked himself into a shoot on the back of the work shoot basically verbally incinerated Hulk Hogan with some very very curtain remarks that Hulk Hogan obviously didn't like because he was done afterwards he called I can't repeat repeat this it was defamatory it was materially defamatory remarks that I cannot actually repeat on podcast that we do want to be demonetised quite frankly but used the word Shi T a lot he called him bald and he said that as long as that piece of sh h doesn't come back like he said what was it I'll be dead in the goddamn grave if you ever see that piece of sh in the company ever again and he never actually was even though the intention was for him to come back the only time he followed through on anything he'd ever said exactly ultimately this whole thing ended up in court and can you imagine being the jury in this situation what am I doing with my life why are these three deluded fantasies wasting my time isn't this meant to be fake is it real and then imagine asking that question and then the response is well actually this is fake but they're designing it to be real but the reality drove so close to home that I became real once more it was Vince Russo's misunderstanding of how to like use the worksheet I think when he got to be severe with the reins off completely so with Flores and I think we all speakers as fans of it enough that if you're trying to look through the window for a wrestler there's a big blind of you want to peek through the blinds and just kind of get a few of the secrets for yourself one day Vincent one Vince Russo was given permission to like write their storylines and book their storylines in which he knew that there was fans just like us that wanted those little extra peaks that we can't always get in W so he was like somebody pulling us unbind right off wash straight up he believed her you just wanted a clear view straight and there was paper views in which Kevin Nash would build up by saying I'm going over and that doesn't work in professor at UK you can't do that and he leaves that and in the end Goldberg who who won't do the job goes out and the commentators saying thanks Scott Steiner for doing the right thing pro wrestling's mask slips in that moment because you have to believe what you're watching at that very moment is real Vince Russo used to love playing that game it's like well everything is fake apart from this right now and he just completely misunderstood how to make any money in the way that he'd done with worksheets what less than a year earlier Vince Russo is a gift for the content producer especially especially the right is because he's and you could just use the word backwards is a metaphor and a conceit for everything he did you can do the little sentences at the end where you go I swear if actually that sentence was wrong and he just got absolutely everything backwards with this angle it was absolutely phenomenal my favorite thing about Vince Russo my favorite way in which to bury him is that he targeted this WCW product he was brought in to compete with the runaway WWF which was a massive massive hit with the casual audience and his big tactic was to target his WC w product to the informed smocks who when they looked at this book and just thought I know what you're doing here and I know it's terrible so what on earth he was trying to do I've got no idea he now has a podcast entitled castrating the marks in which she buries people left right in the center for taking wrestling far too seriously and it's like this is the audience that you geared your product to and that failed miserably so I wonder what possibly could be your motivation for titling your show castrating the marks I hate you Vince Russo I hate that I feel anything toward you and that's a shoot that is indeed less right away it's just for the comment and that's just for the sake of the content let's wrap up by very quickly mentioning another thing we were discussing before we came in here which is Brian Pillman one of the classic works as well against Kevin Sullivan explain which way it just feels like we should have got to this sooner cuz you could do 50 podcasts on this part of the trend yeah this start of the trend we should have dusted this the end it should have been at the front Brian Pillman's Lauren cheer you up with this again thank you take care of you its first six months of 1996 severe the rest of ministry he saw how it was changing he saw him when he was being made and he realized he was on the outskirts and he wanted to be one of the big earners and he orchestrated a manner in which he could get himself out of his dubious to be your contract for real and then use ECW to up his value to either WWF or do we so beery signing him it was utterly utterly incredible so the word genius groundbre and like unprecedented their works you hear is that he's in a storyline filled with kevin sullivan which is a nudge in a wink to the people know otherwise that there's been tensions between Pearlman and the Booker Kevin Sullivan he says I respect you Booker man the funds jaws drop yet again because they think they've seen and heard something that shouldn't have happened Pearlman storms backstage cells of Rao with Eric Bischoff to the entire locker room to again work them work the industry because they know that people are going to Dave Meltzer with this Pillman himself was a friend of Dave Meltzer but there are other people backstage going to their mouths are all going a weird camera or whoever are the guys at times saying oh it's really blown up between Bischoff and Pillman Pillman and again this is a long story too short and there's a wonderful book out there and I think by the name of Liam O'Rourke I'm sorry I forgot your name wrong but it's really worth a read that goes in a fabulous detail on this but Pearlman convinces Eric Bischoff the other time brilliant millionaire sort of president observers you'd agree what everyone's if you ask advice president you need to release me for real otherwise the guys that we're trying to fall are just going to know that this is this is a work so you're gonna have to release me for real gets is release goes to ECW comes in is this all-conquering babyface because as we discussed these are the smartest fans in the room as far as they're concerned and then threatens to whip is you know what and it's Johnson and John said he says something to me good said back and piss all over the ring because of our much disdain he had for these people that supposedly knew all about calling some smart marks as well yeah that was it he was dropping like all these insider terms it was perfect it was the exact right use of him tragically tragically as there is contracts on the table from WEF and WCW he gets into a horrific car crash he's live in very very fast his life at a time it is you know it's on their record there's business and you know he's sadly passed away from these exact demons but he was going through a lot of the time you know there was a chemical imbalance there but it helped drive this crazy mind and unfortunately he had a terrible car accident got himself very injured and yet the company's still wanted him not knowing what he could still physically off to the product he created that much of a buzz and wit that much of a frenzy around him that he was the most in-demand guy he got himself a guaranteed deal from Vince McMahon when those sort of things were never being offered Toby so he still wanted him he was still on the front brother eric bischoff before he died you know he was still in good come in contact with him because he was considered that valuable because he'd shown that it wasn't just about your body it was about your mind wrestlers were inspired by him it was such an incredible thing to watch happen and you know I was a fan at the time trying to piece it together myself through magazines and probably very primitive internet maybe not even that but it was just excitement because because he was able to get such a visibility across all three promotions he was reminding you that the wrestling universe was was coming together in ways that you hadn't seen before and this only predates something like the New World Order by six months and the NWO was basically effectively telling you that razor and diesel from the WWF so he was ahead of those ahead of those machinations in the industry happening and he was getting it all for himself the one little thing about Perlman that I wish it happened that never did was that he wanted to chain himself to the goalposts during a super bull that transcends progress and if he's the guy that runs naked onto the picture at the Super Bowl and just handcuffed himself to it then he becomes a story that were still talking about for entirely different reasons today how do you got away with that one well for a start I think Vince McMahon would have signed him on the day I think that would have been exactly Vince's cup of tea before the car crash and before everything else but I would have just loved if that would have been an extra part of that story because I think in terms of mainstream he would have broke through in a way that really was only ever in the wrestling bubble it really is a minister yeah like the one of the reasons why this is such a profoundly brilliant work I think sometimes the the abbreviated narrative kind of sells short the performance but because it was unprecedented because we'd never seen it before because we'd never had more reason to believe it because it was the first time he'd seen the trick his performance throughout was so good I mean you talked about his excess he lived his life pretty much exclusively it was midnight every hour of the day this is a man who looked like he'd never blinked in five years his eyes was so white his voice was so hoarse he looked like he never slept the only thing he did was just live an excessive lifestyle to the full hilt crazy 24/7 his performance was absolutely genius and one of the more tragic components of air and I hesitantly use that word because obviously the man died very young leaving behind a family kids who we adored and it's the fact that he was an actual sensational worker as well yeah and what he wasn't just a clever guy who had to create this scheme to hide his limitations as a worker that he had to do something else because he had that and then some in the bag he was a great great worker who also in a similar vein as Steve Austin realized the change of the times and kind of evolved as in-ring work he was flying Brian Pillman and then yeah he evolved into this like fierce brawler he knew exactly what was happening before literally anybody else did and he changed the industry but he could have done even more one last little thing on Pillman if I may and in January which is right around the time of that and W we were in the pool at WC to be were in the process of building up to one of infamously one of the worst matches of all time which is Hulk Hogan a Randy Savage versus eight heels in the domesday cage what ha ha one of the worst one of thee words now one of the best was watching this and immediately was on the phone to Bischoff saying I want Pillman in that much and you know why why he'll my much is because he wanted to drop the big leg Pillman who would fought through every injury that voice was part of a throat cancer operation and like he'd worked with like uncle's half hanging off before managed to get a doctor's note to get out of that deal because he was switched on to everything switched on to absolutely everything knew what could damage him knew could attack him when he signed for WBA and he wasn't injured enough it was Shawn Michaels the WEF champion a guy again who was like very politically charged Hogan was Pillman were the top of his list that was a few that Vince McMahon saw money in assuming Pearlman could get fit and how tragic that he never did again it's hard to talk about tragedy when a man died lost his family but there are many truck-like Micro tragedies to this story and a fit Brian Pearlman in 96 versus Shawn Michaels can you imagine area title is why Vince McMahon is offering that contract that seems a perfect place to end for today so let us know your thoughts on what you think wrestling's best ever work was in the comment section or on Twitter at what culture WWE whilst they can follow all three of these you can follow Michael and flit at Michael and flips you can follow Michael Sidgwick at M Sidgwick you can follow me at Adam will one as I said you can follow us all at what could you w e make sure you subscribe to what Kutcher I mean the iTunes or Spotify for more daily podcasts my thanks to the daddy boys thank you for watching and we will see you soon

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