What Wrestling Rules Would You Change Podcast

[Applause] hello and welcome to the wrestling round table discussion podcast I'm Adam will born from what culture joined by the Dudley Boyz of what culture Michael Hamlet and Michael sidwich to discuss another burning wrestling issue but before we get into it if you're a fan of this sort of thing make sure you subscribe to what coach Wrestling on iTunes or Spotify for daily wrestling podcast where we review everything from paper views to Raw Smackdown we have interviews we have more roundtable discussions like this one and we have a round of the week complete with a baloney good quiz of course on wrestle culture but gents we've recently discovered that the tag-team rules have been changed when it comes to interference mid-match as far as I can gather you only get one save from your partner who isn't the legal man in the match before your team will get disqualified now I want to talk about that but I also want to know from the two of you what wrestling rules would you change right when's this podcast going out because by the time it does like tomorrow the rule wouldn't be changed by rendering this exercise point that's what we can talk about other things could just talk about this rule now yeah well what is actually a rule yeah what are they doing I've got no idea I mean maybe they worked it into the match with braun strowman and Kurt Angle taking on drew McIntyre and Baron Corbin recently that was the reason why a bronze frame and got disqualified but yeah I can't help but feel with some of the tag teams that they have yeah the way they often break up pinfalls this is kind of counterproductive they seem very much to like lots of matches between the new day the bar and the users all of which features so many of these spots that the dramatic is hell and they're very very creative with them while they're doing it's like one dramatic wrinkle out of those matches that it's just completely removed leaving them with a really traditional approach to tag-team wrestling where they don't even like tag-team wrestling at all I just find this baffling a sense this is one of those things because it was used really well on NXT once last year wasn't it with mustache mountain Spira where Tyler bit couldn't make the seed because he's effectively used his last life up and Trent's Evans knees and all sorts of pain and things like that yeah exactly so you think like Triple H's employed this really well and things I can drip feed this back into the main roster like a drip fed actual tag wrestling the main roster a couple years ago and look what happened then look what happens when he puts things back in the hands of into a man Vincent man thinks he's just reinvented the wheel himself and so Paul decided in three weeks it's just destroyed all over again so whilst I think the germ of it is positive it will end up being a German it will just in fact a civics as the match is that we've come become accustomed to for especially from smack sounds really exciting and really dynamic tag division it's a sort of stuff that is ideal if you need in a gap in a raw finish which is the cheapest way to use it but it's gonna hinder the matches that people have come to wanna watch out of all the favorite teams which the moment is the last thing that Activision needs like hours of the O's of the opinion if w e credit whereas - was really good at this where they'd shoot a pinfall and you think oh my god this is it they're gonna win they're gonna become the new tag team champions and then from completely blindside in comes the partner to roll someone off the pin or whatever but that can't happen anymore because if they go well they've already broken it up so it's either disqualification we'll say it asks if higher standards of the heels sob excited at least to see the wrestlers the more creative the wrestlers work they spot into the matches in a way that theoretically generates Heat the revival should be brilliant with this we have evidence to suggest they're not man the revival as wrestlers and you know in conjunction with all either people help produce these matches theoretically should be able to make the best of the rule like this again with Vincent my other hand on their shoulder looking down at the little pudgy bellies then just give us five minutes and get the hell out my ring I don't foresee it playing out particularly well so with that I know what wrestling rules would you like to change by first one and the second one bleeds into it is at present the referee's decision is final now the problem with that is that the referee invariably is a moron not necessarily invariably but whenever the storyline suits the referee being a moron the referee will be a moron missed some obvious cheatin and that will mean that a foul result is now like in play that's just canon sorry you've lost the match because the referees an idiot we are in 2019 instant replay has been available to most televised sports productions for several decades at this point it just makes WWE look like this contrived out-of-date thing that don't have like no performers realize how there's a camera trained directly into their soul while I do the backstage scheming and they've just seen a miscarriage of justice play out in the WWE ring but only the referee could have seen it well you know hang on just look at that big massive titantron about 20 feet away from you if you know what actually Oh bit of a botch there so let's just reverse the decision and let the match continue and basically this will result in a Heels gonna have to do better cheatin which makes the babyfaces look less like idiots and that's what happens yeah everyone looks like an idiot the babyface and the referee alike so under this instant replay system where the referee's decision isn't final the heels are gonna have to do some really clever fiendish cheatin or and this is a maverick concept the babyface is gonna have to triumph what you're just having guys not winning then lose in the next week how is that gonna work was a version of var indeed it's been implemented in proper sports yep why not like we're gonna be without controversy if they do because there's something every week with VII it's a great talking point I just found out a flaw in this plan gone if WWE did it they would very much go you know we should be leading the way other sports should be doing this just like women's athletics competitions so he had to want to do any more change my camera what rules would you would you like to see altered I don't want to make people's eyes roll or anything but I'm gonna steal from New Japan Pro Wrestling as a relatively recent convert get the heat off me I like you as a relatively recent convert to it in comparison to my learned colleague area I would say that the 20 column was initially something that took a bit of getting used to which is a color on the floor go in the 20 instead of 10 but the two great things about this in any match it which is used almost without exception and there are loads yeah and I'd really struggle to think of the exceptions if pushed is that the rest is a fighting out on the floor and the referee starts counting it's a piece that it's consistent throughout and more importantly it's announced over the loudspeaker so the crowd and the wrestlers are like brought in to the match and are brought in to what's happening the wrestlers know they can fight on the floor the heels can stop the referee counting as you would see in any wrestling match to strike the referee do whatever needed to try and like stop the referee and his trucks but ultimately that count is held to and it's it becomes accountable as the rest is a fighting outside as one guys rolled back into the ring you've then got the the desperate struggle for the guy on the floor get back in and invariably because it's 20 seconds rather than ten it's believable that you would lie out there for the first 15 and then try and either like crawl back in the last minute or and again almost without exception this is used to brilliant effects see a wrestler down for an 18 19 and then just with every last bit of energy there could consume and roll back in at the ring that little moment a dromedary is fantastic because the heel in the ring can then immediately put the boots to the guy who's had to use all his energies got just to even get back into the fight it can in a way that do we don't really use em they should it creates a second act to the match out of nothing really they're just fighting on the floor now you've got to like have them go through the barrier you've got to have a big spot because Raw rolls on and we're going to a commercial so here's the diet you've now that would just be a case of a brawl on the floor where the heel gives them enough for the kick in that they think are they're out of this I can get back in the ring and then when the babyface guys back in you move on you move through the gears into the next after much and it's really like it's so exciting because it's a count-out count-out finishes so rarely happen not least in matches of importance so for them to in the moment work you anyway could help on any boring random Monday Night Raw Smackdown much wait you're just not invested in the stakes and I just think it would work really well and they've got the production to make it count you've talked about the titantron you could put the number on the screen if you wished you've got don't give any just you've got you've got trained and outs that you know can get that get the count over in a dramatic way rather than just being one too like Hamilton doing that would be there's lots of guys that can do we purposely employ these them ring announcers they're supposed to have loads of charisma in there you know and what they're doing so I just think it would be quite easily deployed and w/e as well they've got all the makings are making it work there is a pace to the count as well which I really enjoy it's one - mmm three whereas and WWE it's really panel two like this exaggerated a degree that makes it feel like it's going to go on forever which is really the opposite of what you're trying to achieve because you meant to create the sense of urgency as Michael Hamlet so articulately puts out where in fact in the referee my curious has gone one too and it's just the opposite of dramatic tension there's no urgency to it whatsoever so I'm firmly in favor of this yes and count outs are a big issue when it comes to but not just oew but a key that added impetus so what I say one would think would hopefully reduce the number of count outs but also yet and the the effect of them have been literally being counted out for twenty or twenty seconds to get back in the ring and you still can make it back in would add to the dramatic heft of things I know you want to talk about count outs and disqualifications being used in title matches yeah that's another another rule you like to see change yes absolutely this is a rule that I can never ever see them doing because that the rule in place now the champions advantage is really not an advantage to the champion but it's an advantage to WWE's very lazy creative writing Department because it allows them to prolong program after program of the program with these like just ineffectual inconclusive finishes that save only to prolong and arguably dilute the narrative like at the minute well over the last couple of years we've seen it and you start to top my head Natalia just decided you know what I'm the champion theoretically I could just leave with the title and prolong the agony of losing it for another week so 12 minutes right I've been out wrestled by a superior babyface opponent I'm just gonna leave with my title and I can do that because the rule allows me do it if this was to be changed and a title could change hands or a count-out or disqualification this punishing bad heal behavior and again it goes back to imagination there's nothing like fiendish about it that you can't hate a heel for doing this cuz it's just more like oh well I can't wait for Charlotte Flair to get a revenge in Italia circum 2017 absolutely nobody had that reaction nobody want to see the match again because it's not as if Natalya had done anything fiendish or clever something that you would really want her to get her comeuppance on the back of it just doesn't happen like that at all and I think if this rule was implemented you could see a lot more fresh matches because they can't just do repeat a sequel a three chol whatever I think as well an element of that where the champion just walks out on the match because they can keep their title that used to be put across is that you were going to get the leads in end of the purse money but when was the last time you heard wrestlers get for coming to work and doing their job you have a winner and a loser and there's prizes on the line the heels yes there would still take a powder and just hit the belt and go away and that would make them male obviously what the commentators would get across the point that they've really cost himself some money tonight this the reason that they were coming to do the thing they were paid to do is out the window and they've got to kind of enjoy that cost as well you would never hear a line like that from Michael Cole ever now that would never be brought in well it stops bossed I'm a big dog so I don't want to get too much into this because we were in danger of blurring the lines of eras as a fan of MMA there's a certain that I'd like to see either brought in or adapted within to be W when it comes to accent really simple stuff like the champion comes out last it's really simple that's always happened and the amount of time watch as you watch and because someone's arguably more famous they get to come out last no you wait for the champion that is one of the rules I bring out or bring in and another one they sort of already do this but I'd like to see it utilized more often and you know not as reg not that regularly but certainly to add injury to real blood feuds medical stoppages we have people being told that they can't go out there and they're not allowed to compete they're not being cleared or whatever but you never see that in the ring where the referee you see that all the time there may be where the referee waves it off because they go look you cannot continue your eyes been shot you're bleeding too much or whatever I mean there's an argument there that I think maybe should bring back blading but they said that's probably a whole different different conversation but yeah medical stoppage could really add some intensity to a feud but you think about like a Seth Rollins Dean Ambrose who which which was handled really poorly if the other only real time I can remember it really being utilized well it was Matt Hardy versus edge and Matt Hardy was being so badly the referees had to wave off the mat you don't really see that anymore the next day always feels like it doesn't count doesn't it but yeah but Kevin Owens did that to Sami Zayn he beat him and beat him and beat him and beaten to the point where doctors were examining Sami Zayn's head I thought this man can't continue and Kevin Owens won the title that way it was really really cruel especially considering the storyline was based on the cruelty of a man turn on his best friend when it's used to great effect like that you really believe it the worried I would help with something like that is I think too many of the wrestlers probably aren't trained this is not me to say that I could do any better putting this across what aren't trained to know the difference between a worked real injury and a worked worked injury if you know I mean it's almost really hard now for the wrestlers when they've been asked to sell an arm or a leg for five minutes to sell it worse there is no they don't go up the Gator the sound anymore they're the likes of a Bret Hart just don't really exist now when it you know if they are there they're not really emerging from the performance and you sell you sell you sell you make you come back and it's like the injuries magically disappeared and I do worry that that wouldn't come across well enough unless it's something like it like you say like a blood stoppage or a facial in or something like actual Mick Foley was willing to let Terry Funk punch him in the head so the welts would appear to create that kind of finisher and you look at like the Casio so no matter ador match recently on NXT where Mac a Caesar necessary tapped out due to strike something like that that would really mean they want to make it more to be bringing in MA MMA people why not utilize something like that rather than have to have them get it the traditional three count or the submission Michelangelo what are the rules changes would you like to see there's one that I was trying to think about this before we spoke and I was trying to give a way in which I would enjoy Monday Night Raw specifically more Smackdown and generally feels a breezier watch and I was runtime can't make that much of a difference on a show because the storylines can still be boring the matches can still be labored I would like to see the return of TV time limits and Monday Night Raw is so bogged down by the worry and the panic that the elias max you're watching is going to go 15 minutes instead of seven if you put 10 minutes or 20 minutes or whatever you want to depend on the prestige of the performance and have the title of the storyline in question because this is a this is a moveable feast this is flexible wrestlers should earn the right to get a guaranteed 30 minutes if they need it in the Continental title match or because it's the main event that we do we can tell us that anything they want is the main event but if the main event gets 30 minutes in the only match gets 10 then we know the difference and the wrestlers who were in those matches know the difference and Apollo Cruz has got it in him to have these exciting matches but he saw lost and drowning in the swamp is the raw undercard that you no particular want to watch his matches to find out what you can do if you're told the most you have to commit is 10 minutes unless he can work his way to the 15 minute here or the 20 minutes here I think I would really help I think titles having set time limits I think it used to be that the certainly in the NWA the TV title was for TV matches and they would either give it like television time remaining or 20 minutes for television or things like that it's very easy to set those up wbf before it was w we experimented with it in the night is as a way to build tension to stick around on Monday Night Raw because they would say with all TV time remaining that was like that was a bag please don't turn back to nitro because you're gonna get your finish here because they knew that nitro or saying I will run out of time so that was a way that they used it then now there's no impetus to do that they say where I'll see you going you'll be back after the dive you'll be back after the 10th Seth Rollins much that you've seen with braun strowman over the last three weeks because where else are you gonna go so I'd like I just think anything that would create a sense of urgency back on at weekly sure that the worst-case scenario is your least favorite wrestlers gonna go 10 15 minutes will probably keep you with it and stop you from flicking over or losing interest because once you lose interest in a character in a match I don't know if this is just my first experience but I feel like I remember that I feel like I remember the weekend Brian award me at tears and it's a hard road back to care about a guy once these board your two or three weeks in a row really that good but could work really well yeah absolutely it's one of those rules that if implemented would reward funds are in a mediate level like I said on Monday night it can be a complete you know a drug especially when you're British and it's a Tuesday morning when you waking up half awake an you think in all right okay what happened on Raw and then within 30 40 minutes it's kind of just sludge but also as um Floyd says I can only agree with him because it's put it very eloquently it would elevate Championships and it would create that rare tiered system which something like 50/50 Buchan is just utterly obliterated I don't know who are meant to invest in more who are meant to take seriously is a main event proposition who I should therefore on the back of that thing he is going to get me an event match in a pay-per-view in about two or three months time so let's root for this guy let's stick with this guy because something big is going to happen to him something worth investing in except the minute as you say it's just a bunch of guys it's everything we're describing as well it all it's all about the follow-through and it's all how much you stick to it broadly speaking there's gonna be exceptions I'm sure broadly speaking the Noah or my tree much rule is working really well at the moment already it's been one I can month a month and a half and you're allowed to think that if those guys can't win that title on that night boom out who's next and that immediately creates that sense of competition energy I think they should also be put arguing put to the back of the queue because it annoys me that they say yeah no automatic rematch is all you just want to normal contenders much yeah it's a bit of a it's workaround is now yeah they're being cheeky with that in my personal opinion it's just adding another week to the formula but that is what it is one final rule change that you'd like to see Michael situated I would like to see actual tagging because I'm a total dork who is just a pedantic dork who with the exception of NXT in New Japan in the high high high-end WWE pay-per-view matches like when when Brock Lesnar is on Form and Daniel Bryan's amazing when Becky Lynch in Charlotte Flair or fighting each other like the absolutely hate each other at my core and I've chosen the wrong hobby I'm firmly aware I like it when Pro Wrestling makes a complete legitimate sense and works within a very structured fictional universe that enforces but also that's where I'm looking for like encourages creativity and we're on the subject of the revival they used to be great at this in NXT even though they cheated a little bit too much with it but I'm talking about the brain Buster's was so good at the blind tag and by the actual tag I mean hand-to-hand I've got vivid memories of SummerSlam 1989 and a really great match between the brain Buster's and the Hart Foundation as is absolutely fantastic spot I think Tully Blanchard is about getting atomic drop and he eats the moon yeah but yeah hangs his hands back like that and because it's hand to hand and was strictly enforced rule it just makes you think right he's got he's got back in the ring what's gonna happen to Bret Hart what's gonna happen to probably Bret Hart now whereas nowadays realistically there's so many slaps to the back and it's just come on it's really lazy work and what I hate most about is like with many of these rules they invite you they're just completely scrutinized plotholes and when you do that you just removed from this thing you meant to be escaping into which is the opposite of the intended effect like what stopping someone who's very limber ie virtually every one of these athletic modern WWE superstars to just sort of go over the rope like abdomen first and just slap any body part indiscriminately the first thing that you could find I mean there's an art to great great blind tag heal chiyan and you just don't see enough of it anymore which instead yields this all action save stuff that we get which while good does get formulaic but it's fine because they've changed it now like the thing about to talk about rules is that is there you don't want people to think that you're trying to like narrow the ways you can have fun wrestling if anything he trying to squeeze that creativity out of people when you were talking about those tags there it put me in mind I was trying to think like modern examples my brain was going Institute calls me the robot sometime because these little sequences stick in my head and to keep in mind very recently and unsurprisingly they were from the bar and the users there was the match that the bar had with the use of Survivor Series where the user was performed at a quarry so was diving over the ropes and tugged the other just to sort of hit and move and then tag his partner in sick ago when the match and when the bar defeated the new day and ended their record where they did the phantom tag and then put the hands out to give the gesture of the tag to throw the new day off the scent and then didn't actually perform the tag and I just think that's that's that creativity that a rule like that would force out of so many races that probably you know in their defense don't give it a lot of thought they might be getting give an instruction to go five minutes and you know call in the ring or whatever that would insist that these wrestlers come up with spots like that right regularly and then that would become something that the fans would get used to and it's always about informing fan bases any period in any time we are informed by the rest of Groupon and the rest in that we grew into just like Calvin's Russo insisted on two-minute crash TV matches and how to work it all the way back do you want to see anything longer than five it only takes a little bit of time before that becomes the norm and once it's the norm you've got generations of fans that accept things are different way yeah and what we're talking about here can give fun something better to accept than maybe what they're always given now yes the farmer makes far more sense than and only one save yeah absolutely and then it also all of these rules then inform drama subsequently because it's a horrible rotten cliche but rules in wrestling especially are made to be broken so when a heel actually breaks the rules which so rarely happens all the time obviously but it never has any dramatic effect because it's so commonplace if under these new rules that obviously the next generation of the w/e creative writing team right here in element then you can might actually get that elusive heat that isn't totally cheap very quickly yes some overall rules I think we'd all agree we'd like to change winds do matter wins and losses should matter in sort of a lot of ranking systems per se but you know building up a bit of momentum before you go on and having a title opportunity perhaps and I mentioned it earlier and it's sort of it's not a rule that it's spoken off but blady needs to come back blading it does need to come back it's one of wrestling's greatest ever works because it's still to this day within reason yeah everything reason obviously again sparing stuff helps the key things get over properly and blade and still it's magnificent work because sponsors are still absolutely terrified by the visual of it without realizing that instead to compensate for the lack of blade and in a Brock lesner match we'll just do a concussion and it's replaced a person in control of something to cut themselves open has given the head and the head not the chest given the head to a man's elbow you know don't get how that has been deemed safer than home a cage fight is over yeah it's one of those as well like if anyone you probably trust Brock because he knows how I heard people very effectively but yeah I thought to say blade and come back on a sparing basis because it just adds so much like inimitable drama to a pro wrestling match and pyro well you that goes about size and namely podcasters yes bring bring back PI routers just get the comment section Piru at the end of every single bit of content each and every 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